Configuring HUD display

[Jason]

Hi

It would be great if there were more variables available in the drop down list in the HUD confguration program. For
example, it could be extended to included orbit data, distance from base etc. Then it would be really powerful.

Jason

[DanSteph]

About orbiter there is already apopasis, periapsis ecc etc etc
what would you see more ?

Dan

[freespace2dotcom]

Maybe the heat displays? I know it'd be handy, but not enough so that it'd be worth all that work. (it's not like there's
some other display that needs to be run during reentry.)

[Jason]

Sorry! That orbit information you have provided is enough. It's just that I didn't understand why the numbers were
different to what we see on the Orbit MFD panel (SHIFT - O).

The standard MFD shows the PeD in different units. For example, if you're orbit earth it may show 6.722M, and then
on the HUD it shows 351.44KM.

Can anyone explain this for me?

[MattNW]

The standard HUD shows your distance from the center of the Earth. In the Custom HUD it's distance from the
ground. Just a little feature to save you having to calculate the difference in you head.

[freespace2dotcom]

MattNW wrote:
The standard HUD shows your distance from the center of the Earth. In the Custom HUD it's distance from the
ground. Just a little feature to save you having to calculate the difference in you head.

And believe me, Dan. I love ya for that, man.

[Jason]

Ah ...thanks for that.

I'd like also there to be a variabes that shows PeD values that are the same as the HUD values, since I have made re-
entry " window " tables based on these main HUD units.

If it's possible. I imagine it's quite easy to add variablesto that drop down list:)

J

[DocHoliday]

I think it's actually easier to change your tables. Just reduce all the altitude numbers by 6378

Oh, how do you guys (Americans and British) cope with the metric system in Orbiter? I mean, the metric is what I use
daily, but if you're brough up with feet and inches, how hard is it to switch? Just curious. I bet it's easier than the
other way around, tho.

[freespace2dotcom]

DocHoliday wrote:
Oh, how do you guys (Americans and British) cope with the metric system in Orbiter? I mean, the metric is what I use
daily, but if you're brough up with feet and inches, how hard is it to switch? Just curious. I bet it's easier than the
other way around, tho.

Are you trying to imply that metric is somehow magically easier, doc?

I was born and raised on the good 'ol Imperial (though Imperial has a negative ring, as though It was an evil dictator's system. I prefer to call it the traditional "english") system. and I never wanna switch to metric in real life. Yes, I'm that stubborn. As far as orbiter is concerned, I have relatively no problems, and it makes me realize that the day that the dreaded meters will eventually replace my treasured inches and feet comes closer with every day that passes. Although I think a large part of my ease in orbiter is that I'm *not* an interstellar pilot in real life, so I "learned" metric for space travel. I still can't tell you anything about the comparisons between the two systems except that meters are roughly 3 feet and miles are a fair bit longer than kilometers. I still don't know the distances in kilometers from my house to my school, only in miles. (about 2.5) I can always estimate a rough guess. (4.5 KM in this case? I want to emphasize "Rough Guess") but the day my politicians think how great metric is, I will be there to cry about traditions, etc., etc.

Fortunately, in my case, there are a lot of americans who are like me in this aspect, but the amount who will go along
with metric increase every day, and I suspect that if the american congress said that we're going metric from this day
forward, there wouldn't be enough of a public outcry to change their minds. They know this, but want to wait a bit
longer to make sure of it.

In any case, I can live with fighting the good fight and losing, But I can't just stand there and watch it happen.
Although, If I *DID* lose, I'd complain every step of the way while they strap me to a table and spoon feed metric to
me. But then that's just me.  I'd like to say again that I have no problem with metric in Orbiter, (and neither should
anyone else for that matter, except for astronauts, but I think they deal in metric anyway.) but the day metric comes to my school, well, you better be wearing earplugs, 'cuz I won't shut up.

As far as the british go (and please correct me If I'm wrong) I'd assumed that everyone there has already been
taught metric and the traditional system is a thing of the far past that only the oldest britains refuse to give up.

In all fairness, metric's only so popular because it's base ten, we have ten fingers so it's easier to do math with, but I can visualize miles just as easy as you can kilometers. In fact, it *wasn't* until I converted kilometers to miles that I realized "Ohh, the atmosphere cuts out *THAT* high? WOW!"  I just use the numbers in orbiter to get by. Remember that Even freespace2, the wonderful game that I stole my name from, uses metric for distance. but I *still* think in the old fashioned ways and most likely always will.

Of course I've only been talking about distance so far. To date, I've never dealt with pressure, so I've never used pounds per square inch or pascals or whatever, and temperature is relatively OK to me now that my PC's heat diplay *only* displays in celsius. (50 is good, 60 is bad, and 70 gives you another three mile island disaster.) But I Still can't *visualize* it like Fahrenheight, though.

But for mass/weight, I have a serious conflict. In fact it's my one fatal problem with orbiter.  It's nice to see the kilograms go down as you burn fuel, but to be frank, I use pounds. I cannot visualize kilograms at all, I've had no experience with them. (at least odometers in cars give speed in both systems, as maps give distance in both as well.) Another confusing thing is that when I think of "ton" I think 2000 pounds. As I understand it, a metric ton is 1000 KG, and although they share similar names, I learned not to confuse the two. when looking at the DG3's re-entry weight, you can imagine the headaches that it caused me. I was trying to think of so many "traditional" tons, and convert that to metric, and to make a long story short, I got really mad and started ignoring the "dump fuel" warning. And since the heat bug fix, I've had no problems. Major headache. Well, Anyway, now you know a little bit about how an american views the metric system. I'm happy with mine. And I'm happy you're happy with yours. If I made you change to my system, you'd be just as upset as I would be if you made me change mine. Lets not change anything and be happy, k?

ooh, what a rant. I bet you weren't expecting one this long, Doc.

~Freespace2dotcom. (who seems to add something to this post every ten minutes or so.)



Post Edited ( 05-17-04 19:02 )

[DocHoliday]

Yup, that WAS kind of long. So risking another one, I will write some more. The point is of course not to change
anyone's system, especially if they like it, but to understand better why and how we use it.

I am not even sure how many inches is a foot and how many feet is a yard etc. I mean of course I could look it up,
but it's just complicated. Arguably, you are cool if you are able to keep all that in your head and calculate on the spot,
but still.. So I guess, like you said, the trick and advantage with imperial is, that because it is not "practical" in the
base 10 way, it does force you to visualize measures, which is useful from a creativity point of view. Everytime you
use the system, you also involve your right brain lobe to help you calculate stuff. With metric you don't have to. I can
tell you that I cannot visualize 1km or 1 ton or 1 tonne for that matter. But I bet I can visualize 1 meter just as well
as you do with a yard. I cannot measure a distance with my eyes. Like "tell me how long do you think that bridge is",
I totally suck at that.

Our system I guess works on pure logic and calculation is faster, not to mention more accurate (I assume, there are
more decimals in the results of imperial conversions) as opposed to metric, where you just move the decimal point
around (at least for distances and weight) So you're more creative while you calculate, which might explain some
other things if you look at it generally. Like, why did the English have a major naval force, and why did American build
the shuttle. Now ignoring the obvious reasons, in some small way, it MIGHT have something to do with the creativity
being invoked everytime an "imperial" calculator starts calculating May explain why I can't judge distance. But that
in itself is all another discussion. Matter of system, perception, eye sight, experience...

So to make a point. Imperial is good when you are in the process of designing something new. Metric is good when
you put it to practice AND when you use computers to perform calculations. Correct me, but I remember a disastrous
incident with a probe that had some sort of problem with altitude measurement. It was either an error in calculation
or they just interpreted the result incorrectly - I guess they used meters instead of feet. Anyway, the point, right
system, for the right job and tool.

You stated your case, but for my part, I would not mind sacrificing tradition for something new if it turned out to be
more useful. For example, I would not abandon metric system myself, but I WOULD accept the Fahrenheit system at
least for weather. I was once told, that the F degrees used in weather have are similar to percentage. Average
temperature on our planet range from -32 to 50 or so Celcius. Now in Fahrenheit that would be from about (I'm not
being accurate, becoz, that's not the point) 0 to 100 Fahrenheit. Like 0% heat to 100%. That somehow sounds useful
as percentages generally are useful in real life. How is F defined by the way?

Then again sometimes, it's more useful to use a system based on water freezing point, which is C. Of course, for
science generally Kelvin is by far the best, especially when dealing with low temp.

Well anyway my counterrant,  

[freespace2dotcom]

Yeah, this is sorta intellectual.

actually, if I'm not mistaken, it was the hubble telescope that didn't focus right after it was first put up because
someone forgot to convert one system to another (whoops...) I myself am hideous at measuring distance as well. But
if somebody was to say that something was so long, or so heavy, or even so hot, I would be able to picture that in
my head pretty well, and so forth. A little surprise to all of you. when I look at the heat display in the DG3, I know it's
in celsius, but my brain reads them in fahrenheight. So I'll never be able to really appreciate the full beauty of the
heat panels until dan feels pity for me. (no chance in hell, but hey, I can still *live* with it as is)

Actually. A quote from a person even more sarcastic than me. My grandfather...
"If you know math well enough, you don't need base ten"

Of course. He said other things, and personally, I think that though I can hold my own on most average
math, I think in truth I'm no better than anyone else.  As far as there being more decimals in the english system,
you're sorta right. you might be surpised to learn this, but the english system uses more or less common fractions. so
you still can wind up with a nice number. *if you think in fractions!*

of course, here's a little lesson that anybody might appreciate.
inches are divided into fourths, and eighths, and sixteenths, and so on. so two eights of an inch is the same as a
fourth. keep in mind I'm part of a generation raised on calulators, so it's a tad harder for me than maybe someone of
my age 100 years ago, but the principal is still easy to follow with some practice. everyone knows about fractions,
and I sorta assume that everyone knows about this too, so surprise me and tell me you didn't know.

there are a nice even *dozen* inches in a foot. It's easy to remember because one more and you get thirteen,
the "very bad evil unlucky number". there's exactly three feet to a yard, and then there's miles, and it's a really funky
number of feet or yards that even I confess I don't know, but then I really don't think anybody needs to know that,
but it's 8 city blocks, and that's the important thing to remember. why did I mention this? well, it's a bit complicated....

I know these things because I've used them for all of my small and insignifigant life, just as I've used the time system
that we all use and have used since our ancestors came up with it countless generations ago. Now, let me ask you
this. If scientists came up with metric time, (and no doubt they already have in my mind) where a day was divided into
ten smaller "unit-hours" and so on until you had a small unit fairly comparible to the current second. would you
abandon the current 24 day for this "metric" day? I dont' think you would. I confess that I can't read your mind so
you're free to prove me wrong. But we've been using our good 'ol time system for so long, and it works just fine, so
why would we switch. I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase stores use to say they're open "24 hours a day." that's
a cultural phrase that we both understand, but somebody who grew up on this metric time would confused, and
would try to convince us that this switch would be a good thing, but *MY* position is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I
know how many seconds are in a minute. 60. I'm pretty sure you do too. would you change your time system to
something that looks a lot prettier but for all but the most part works IDENTICAL? go to all that effort to learn that
newfangled thing? I think you see where I'm going.

And about fahrenheight, for water, freezing is at 32 degrees and boiling is at 212.  it's a bit weird, but yeah, for the
most part, 0 is the lowest people want to tolerate, and 100 is the max. But it can get to worse on both ends.
Personally, I'm a winter person, so I can tolerate temps from maybe -15 bundled up without getting frostbit, and I can
only take up to about 90 before that Air conditioning device goes on full blast.

Well, I'm ready for round three. bring it!



Post Edited ( 06-02-04 03:04 )

[Atom]

I like metric. It's easier to understand. Seeing as I have been taught mainly metric I suppose I should like it.

[Krytom]

It's strange because in Britain we use the metric system and miles. We use yards too but that's as small as we
go in imperial. For the rest, we use metric. Don't ask me why, I've only been an Englishman for 14 years.

[freespace2dotcom]

Nice to get your opinions and it interests me.  Of course, I'm starting to find that more and more games use metric,
but that happens..

And I'm glad you guys like metric, and that it's easier for you, but I'm an american, and "we do things not because
they're easy, but because they're hard."  

[DanSteph]

Well it's just a matter to change the educationnal system, one generation
will be a bit lost but the growing one will be fully used to new system.

I've passed to swiss->french money two years ago and then in euro
I know that's not easy to change your mind....

I was trapped lately about euro we bought a things with my usuall
mind rough conversion and then when I made the real calculus it
was in fact very expensive. fraction DOES matter for big number

( 100 swiss franc->400 old french franc-> 64 euro )

Dan

[freespace2dotcom]

sure, fractions matter for the extreme numbers, I'll grant you that, but HOW big a number does the average person
use daily anyway? chances are it's not so bad a number that my system can't handle decently anyway. Besides, If it
wasn't for there being 12 inches in a foot, I doubt I could ever count by twelves now. Perhaps metric is better for out
in space, where distances are extreme, and for really small things like microchips, but I'm not giving up my precious
inches and pounds. Maybe I'll start trying to get used to reading Km per hour on my car, but even then, I'm happy
with what I have. I also recently found out from my classmate from sri lanka that a kilogram is very close to 2 pounds.
that helps me greatly, but I still would hope somebody out there makes a non-metric version of the orbiter MFDs just
for the hell of it. I'd do it myself if I could code, but I can't, so....

[DocHoliday]

Heh, interesting all that. I didn't have enough time to post round 3 , heheh, but I might. I can also post a conversion
table I made in Excel a while ago. You should find it very usefull. I know I did. Lemme just find the darn thing.

Cheers,

[freespace2dotcom]

http://convert.french-property.co.uk/index.htm

For the lazy.

(me)

[AphelionHellion]

was trapped lately about euro we bought a things with my usuall
mind rough conversion and then when I made the real calculus it
was in fact very expensive. fraction DOES matter for big number

( 100 swiss franc->400 old french franc-> 64 euro )

Well the way I see it, we Americans have to puzzle over converting metric and Imperial all the time, and you
Europeans have to puzzle over converting Euros to all the other currencies every day, so we all do about the same amount of
puzzling in the end  

[freespace2dotcom]

Actually, I really never have had to screw with the metric system. with the rare instances like in orbiter, I don't bother
converting anything, I just remember important numbers and then just treat the readings like numbers. No
converting. in real life, I've never had to convert anything to metric or vice versa. I'm cool with what I have. And on
the subject, I'm curious, I thought that all of the european countries use only euros now except britain, and that the
old currencies are no longer used or that there are at least plans to make them no longer used. can anybody fill me in
on this?

[Krytom]

Not all European countries use euros, for instance Denmark, Sweden as well as Britain. Also, of course, countries that
aren't in the European Union, such as Switzerland. Another 10 countries have recently joined the EU but none of
them have euros yet. I personally don't care whether Britain has euros or not. About the old currencies, they are no
longer used. French francs became useless ages ago.

[freespace2dotcom]

That's very helpful.

[Krytom]

I'm no expert, but I'm glad to help. Who here could somehow get inside UN headquarters?

[Atom]

Possibly!?

(Air Cadets)

P.S.What does the UN have to do with it, did you mean the EU?

[freespace2dotcom]

the UN is one worlder and anti-progress. I refuse to have the UN take over the soveregnty of *ANY* country. no
matter what or where. You don't want to go in there. Trust me. There's nothing wrong with wanting your own country
to manage it's own affairs, although It's still a bad thing for that same country to butt in somewhere else but, that's
another thing entirely.  Err, why exactly *are* we talking about the UN, anyway?