[Closed] [BETA9] of DeltaGliderIV

[MattNW]

Not sure if this is a bug but what happens to the crew of a DGIV when it's on the pad at Prelude base and you put the ship
into safe mode. All it says is the crew has exited the ship but they don't appear in the Prelude crew list. Is this a bug or
a feature to get rid of pesky crews?

[Tachyon]

I've been silent up till now due to finding a "bug" - then searching to see if it's already been reported - then finding it
has been. And it's the same here but I wanted to put my two cents in anyways. It's a "additional" info to Voyager's
find.

* as will all the tests - fresh install with just this Beta 9 installed
* it is repeatable.
* most likely not a "feature" (happening at the wrong time can be hair raising )

I had just ingauged the Hold Alt program and then tried to input a 2nd program and realized I wasn't going to
be able to via the manual input terminal. I flipped to the main console and pressed the Horizon Level AP and
then KillRot. I then thought to myself ... hmm.... *that* was multiple programs ...... went to look at what
had happened to my Hold Alt program and it appeared to no longer be running - however I was unable to alter
the hover engines nor was I able to STOP the Hold Alt program which now seems to have
become "Lost In Space".

Dan - are you ready for a few doc corrections as I run across them as well??

[willy88]

MattNW wrote:
Not sure if this is a bug but what happens to the crew of a DGIV when it's on the pad at Prelude base and you put the ship
into safe mode. All it says is the crew has exited the ship but they don't appear in the Prelude crew list. Is this a bug or
a feature to get rid of pesky crews?

That's no bug. When a DGIII/IV enters sleep mode, the crew vanish. This is left over from the "pre-UMMU days".
Just pretend they went for a (space)walk...

[Jay Gatsby]

:a bit nervous: Um... Hi... I'm kinda new at this... I might have found a small bug, but then again, it might not be a
bug... this behavior might be by design... anyway, let's talk about docking (please note that I did this in manual mode,
just to be exactly clear on every detail of my observations)  This is sort of a two-part behavior which would appear to
me as impossible for both to be simultaneously intended by design.

Simply put, it seems to me that I should be able to pressurize and depressurize as I please while docked to a space
station or otherwise, as long as both the inner airlock door and the outer airlock door remain firmly shut while airlock
pressure is anything but 100%

Lets say I'm docked to the ISS (an arbitrary object, but nevertheless specific to my situation).  Either I followed the
checklist to the letter (more on this in a moment) or I started up the simulation already attached to the ISS
(specifically, how I came upon this) I have a closed system with three airtight chambers:  the ship, the airlock, and the
ISS.  It would seem to me that I aught to be able to close both of the airlock hatches and then be able to vent the air
out of the airlock (but I cannot do so, though I am able to do so the instant I undock in this configuration).  This
behavior would, however, make sense if the airlock vents through a port (or something comparable) on the outer
hatch.  (This behavior might or might not be intended as it stands right now, but if it is, something else seems wrong
to me)

But at any rate, say it does vent though a port located on the outer hatch.  You may remember that I mentioned
following the checklist (which says that you should dock with a pressurized airlock), well noting the docking checklist,
lets say I'm completely rebellious and instead decided to dock with an unpressurized airlock.  If indeed the vent is on
the outer hatch, I shouldn't be able to pressurize once docked (but I can!) Also note that I cannot depressurize again
immediately after pressurizing... which makes me suspect that this is a bug more than anything else in particular.

So, to conclude, shouldn't I be able to depressurize the airlock while docked to another pressurized object as long as
both of my airlock doors remain firmly shut while airlock pressure is anything but 100%?  does that make any sense?

I know you were going for detailed, but I hope that wasn't TOO verbose...

[killingsnake]

Hmm...

I think its more the other way... Say when you are depressurising, everything is dumped towards the outside (probally not
correct, seems like a waste to me...), But... When you pressurise again, how would the air and other gasses come from the
outside? They just have to come from the inside... Hope this answers to your problem?

[willy88]

Couldn't the air in the chamber just be vented into the air tanks?

[Voyager]

willy88 wrote:
Couldn't the air in the chamber just be vented into the air tanks?

The air tanks are pressurised, you can't go venting anything in those tanks without there being less pressure in the air
tanks then the pressure at where you are venting. Also, the air tanks are filled with O2 and N2. Air is a combination of O2,
CO2, and some contaminents like water. So you'd first need to seperate the air in pure O2 and N2 before you could put them
back in the air tanks. Also in the DGIV, usage of the airlock does not put any drain on the O2 or N2 tanks, so thats already
free air your using

MattNW wrote:
Not sure if this is a bug but what happens to the crew of a DGIV when it's on the pad at Prelude base and you put the ship
into safe mode. All it says is the crew has exited the ship but they don't appear in the Prelude crew list. Is this a bug or
a feature to get rid of pesky crews?

It's a feature like mentioned before, for when the DGIV is docked to a mothership and not used for a extended period (like the Vespucci heading to Mars) Basically all crew exit the ship and board the mother ship (or base if your landed on the ground), without the mothership having to have UMmu capabilities. So you basically hide the crew. When I land at a prelude base i just EVA the whole crew and cut all systems right before i EVA the captain, so the ship doesn't go into safe mode.



Post Edited ( 05-01-07 09:23 )

[JoshB]

I put this beta through the paces and didn't find any real problems.

The only thing that I would report is in the Prelude II Crew List, when I want to get back to the main menu I have to press
down a whole bunch of times (when there are a lot of crew) to get to the bottom of the list.  Is it possible to have the list
wrap from top to bottom or maybe have backspace or escape take you back up a menu level?

I thought lining up the UMmu when EVA everyone from the base was a very nice touch.

[Quick_Nick]

Seems like it isn't a bug, but why does the 'Approach Speed' AP disable controls? You'd think you'd want to fly and try
to land with the AP.

[JoshB]

Quick_Nick wrote:
Seems like it isn't a bug, but why does the 'Approach Speed' AP disable controls? You'd think you'd want to fly and try
to land with the AP.

If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, then this happens because DanSteph assumes you're using a joystick
to fly.  Same thing was occurring for the UMmu jetpack hover autopilot, but a couple of us spoke up and got him to change it.

[killingsnake]

I have another problem here. For some reason, my new keyboard doesn't have any seperate Ins and Del keys.
They are combined with the numpad 0 and  ( . ). So I can't control the camara's anymore. I'm probally the only one with  this
problem, so anyone knows how I can solve this problem?

[sunshine135]

I got playing around with the DGIV in the low gravity environment. I don't think there is any way to fix this, but the DGIV
will land all different kind of ways without a problem on Phobos. I land on the antenna and it doesn't break. I landed
vertical on the engines and they don't break. Is the gravity really so poor on this body that the Antenna could support the
DGIV? If so, my UMmu ought to be able to grapple the DGIV and throw it.  

Thoughts?

[scinrd]

Remember that problem with the Mir-2 and Vespucci_D CTDing on a re-load? Turns out I just had WAY too many docking ports in the scenario:

5 on Vespucci_D
50(!) on VFD-50 ver2
8 module1 generic hab modules
2 module2 generic hab modules
1 mir 2 core
and a mir 2 titan to round off the list.

that's a total of ... 93 docking ports !!! 8o 8o 8o

as Adam Savage of Mythbusters would say, "Well therrs yer problem!"



Post Edited ( 05-01-07 20:57 )

[Voyager]

killingsnake wrote:
I have another problem here. For some reason, my new keyboard doesn't have any seperate Ins and Del keys.
They are combined with the numpad 0 and  ( . ). So I can't control the camara's anymore. I'm probally the only one with  this
problem, so anyone knows how I can solve this problem?

To use the insert and del keys of the numpad you need deactivate the numlock (press the numlock key so the light will go
off). Dont forget to turn it back on or you cant control the ship anymore! (if you're not using a joystick to fly)

sunshine135 wrote:

I got playing around with the DGIV in the low gravity environment. I don't think there is any way to fix this, but the DGIV
will land all different kind of ways without a problem on Phobos. I land on the antenna and it doesn't break. I landed
vertical on the engines and they don't break. Is the gravity really so poor on this body that the Antenna could support the
DGIV? If so, my UMmu ought to be able to grapple the DGIV and throw it.  

Thoughts?

Well considering there is 0,00086 G of gravity on phobos (860 uG), if you could lift 20 kg with one hand on earth, that would mean you could lift about 23.259 kg on phobos, and given that the DGIV weighs in at about 22.473 kg in the "Beautifull landing on phobos" mission. You could lift it with just one hand. Just lieft it up, use your suit jets and there she goes!

Yes i've done my research



Post Edited ( 05-01-07 22:10 )

[Voyager]

Another Bug found,

2 DGIV's docked together, I opened the inner and outer doors on both ships, transfered the crew over, and accidentally
transfered the pilot and leaving a passenger. Then i closed the airlock doors on the 2nd DGIV and undocked. Naturally the
airlock on the 1st DGIV was destroyed from the sudden decompression, but I still wanted to save the last passenger on the DGIV.

EVA wouldn't work, since the airlock is oblitterated and giving the "Airlock or nosecone door not open, EVA not possible"
error on trying to EVA (perhaps in the instance of a destroyed airlock it should read "Airlock destroyed, EVA not possible
instead"?).

But attempting to get that last crew member out using ejection also failed because of the "no pilot on board" error when
trying to pull the ejection lever.

I'm not sure if this is a bug or a feature, but now I have a crew member with 595 minutes of air in his spacesuit, and no way
to get him out of that ship, apart from cheating with the scenario editor

All he can do now is stay put and hope Spacetech HQ can upload a new firmware version to the damaged DGIV before his air runs
out

[sunshine135]

I continue to play around with the DGIV and I have realized with the Prelude II base, we have no shadows for any of our ships
or crew. Now, before you ask, yes, I did make sure that vessel shadows was checked in the Orbiter Launch pad. Is this an
orbiter limitation or something you can fix Dan?

[willy88]

Unfortunately, Orbiter does not currently support vessel-on-vessel shadows.

[Quick_Nick]

JoshB wrote:

Quick_Nick wrote:
Seems like it isn't a bug, but why does the 'Approach Speed' AP disable controls? You'd think you'd want to fly and try
to land with the AP.

If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, then this happens because DanSteph assumes you're using
a joystick
to fly.  Same thing was occurring for the UMmu jetpack hover autopilot, but a couple of us spoke up and got him to
change it.

Well since the AP uses 1 and 2, the pitch and bank control would not interfere and could be allowed. I turned on the
AP, about to land soon and the DG just took a dive towards the ground.
EDIT: 2 is pitch, isn't it... then maybe the AP could use something else. 7 and 9, 1 and 3, something...



Post Edited ( 05-02-07 01:58 )

[sunshine135]

Voyager wrote:

Well considering there is 0,00086 G of gravity on phobos (860 uG), if you could lift 20 kg with one hand on earth, that would
mean you could lift about 23.259 kg on phobos, and given that the DGIV weighs in at about 22.473 kg in the "Beautifull
landing on phobos" mission. You could lift it with just one hand. Just lieft it up, use your suit jets and there she
goes!

Yes i've done my research

Nice analysis!!!! I still have a hard time believing that you wouldn't ding up the dish though, but I suppose what we have
here is a fine balance of distructive versus non-destructive forces. Hence Orbiter's model is not complex enough to ding the
dish, or cause ship malfunctions at these low of forces.

Okay, I'll drop the subject now, because I am just nit-picking.

[Quick_Nick]

"We need to evacuate the base but the engines won't work!"
"Don't worry, I'll just push it up."
lol. Probably wouldn't get far up. You could, however, lift it and move it somewhere else.

[MattNW]

Voyager wrote:

It's a feature like mentioned before, for when the DGIV is docked to a mothership and not used for a extended period (like
the Vespucci heading to Mars) Basically all crew exit the ship and board the mother ship (or base if your landed on the
ground), without the mothership having to have UMmu capabilities. So you basically hide the crew. When I land at a prelude
base i just EVA the whole crew and cut all systems right before i EVA the captain, so the ship doesn't go into safe mode.

Yeah, I remember when Dan added that to the DGIII. I just wondered if he wanted to leave it that way at Prelude base or just
automatically add the crew to the base when the ship is in safe mode. I just EVA the crew also but some people might find
that a bit tedious after a while.

[Jay Gatsby]

Ah... I think I got one for sure here.  I launched the auto-docking autopilot from decently close range (say, no more
than three or four seconds or so of drifting away after undocking) and it fired the thrusters full steam ahead, cutting
right through the craft I was right in front of.

Shouldn't the autopilot be able to determine that it is closer to the dock than the way-point it aims for during an
automated approach, and back up (or something comparable, like an about-face maneuver) to the way-point?

[DanSteph]

for safe mode and docking computer I can do better of course it's possible.
But I think it's more time yet to start to finish the damn things before all
DGIII fan are too old to read a display

So, I'm rewriting the ascent autopilot because it was way to outdated
and after that with latest fix I hope to just write the doc and release
the last beta.

I know I said that many time, but with any luck all this should stop at
one moment (before I'm too old to type on my keyboard)

We might keep some features for DGV

Dan

[Jay Gatsby]

It's all good

[MattNW]

DanSteph wrote:
for safe mode and docking computer I can do better of course it's possible.
But I think it's more time yet to start to finish the damn things before all
DGIII fan are too old to read a display

So, I'm rewriting the ascent autopilot because it was way to outdated
and after that with latest fix I hope to just write the doc and release
the last beta.

I know I said that many time, but with any luck all this should stop at
one moment (before I'm too old to type on my keyboard)

We might keep some features for DGV

Dan

Too late for me. Eye doctor told me I needed bifocals. 8) I just wondered what you wanted to do. As for me I think EVA'ing
the crew is more realistic and fun. Just wish I didn't have to move them one at a time to the airlock on Prelude. That may be
a safety issue  however that the rest of the crew stay in the DG just in case some numbskull gets happy on the suit thrusters
and puts himself into orbit around Phobos.


Only bug I keep coming up with is the CTD at the airlocks and I'm pretty sure that's caused by other ships in the scenario.
Especially Spacecraft3 ships.