HELP! I can not find the LLMFD required files.

[A. Roy]

Hey guy's I seldom ask for help but I am still working on another devoted web site for Orbiter and I am having a hell
of a time locating some of the older required files for the new add-on's. The one I am having the most difficulty with is
the LunarLandingMFD (latest Version), as it requires ACSoft's AMSO add-on
(www.acsoft.ch/orbiter/apollobeta.zip) and Christoph Kopp's Hadley-Apennine
scenery (available at http://nav.to/orbitmods). The problem is neither are available where it say's they are and I can
not find then anywhere, yes EVERYWHERE. I did a google search, went to OrbitMods, Orbiter Hangar, P64's, AVSIM,
etc and still nothing. Please someone tell me you saved a copy of these files and can send them to me so I can
upload them on a permanent server.

Thank you all in advance,

Aric

[Orbiter Fan]

AMSO was the predecessor to NASSP and is no longer required. Christoph Kopp's lunar landing sites can be found
here: http://people.freenet.de/jtiberius/projects.htm

Orbit Hangar can be found here: www.orbithangar.com
Orbit Mods: www.orbitmods.com

[A. Roy]

Thank you. Although this leaves me with another gripe, and that is if people are going to make add-on's that require
add-on's they need to document it much better then they have or include the add-on's in the package.

[Orbiter Fan]

Lunar Landing MFD was made during the time that AMSO was the only complete Apollo mission add-on for Orbiter.
And it has not been updated by its original author since it was released.

[A. Roy]

You are right in that is has not been updated by it's original author for quite some time, but the fact still remains that
the LLMFD has been transformed/updated several times. I don't have a problem with others using the read me files
from the original add-ons as long as they still make sense after they are done making their changes to the program. I
currently possess over 10 gigabytes of Orbiter related files/add-ons that I have been very busy compiling a directory
for. I have another post that speaks of this venture and goes into more detail. The point is, I have been going file by
file, read me to read me trying to make some logical sense of this mess so that newbie´s stop tying up the message
forums with easily answered questions, and waiting forever to receive some comprehensive direction. The problem I
see most newbie´s facing is add-ons they claim don't work, and to be honest, after what I have seen, most of them
don't, that is unless you have the required files to make them work, which often either no longer exist or they have
been updated themselves and no longer integrate as the did. This poses as a nightmare for even me, a very
experienced Orbiter jockey. Which leave me with this conclusion, either I am going to have to put together packs of
files that all require each other for people to download(along with a read me file that makes sense/multi-lingual)or
ditch the idea completely and let everyone fend for themselves like it is now. I would really like to help people enjoy
this great free software, and not end up removing it because of the very poorly orchestrated add-on developments
that mind you, are very hard to not want to install (there are A LOT of GREAT add-ons). Sadly, the experienced
frustration often leads to the complete removal of the program, simply stated, that's just not fair to Dr. Schweiger.

Best regards,

Aric

[tjohns]

Aric, as the one responsible for the recent updates to Chris's excellent  LLMFD (which only one astute Orbiter user has
currently discovered amounts to the sum total of changing one line of code so the MFD starts in Manual Engine mode, and
adding another to set the initial Distance-to-Base to zero while reading the CFG file) I'll make to following points:

1) most authors of add-ons generally include a comment such as "further distribution must include all original material
unaltered". Thus, I would feel uneasy altering another's work (apart from the supplied code, of course) which may detract
from the original authors intents (even just spelling, etc).  Since my changes didn't alter it's operation in any significant
way,  I felt the simple notes made on the download pages were sufficient for my needs.

2) there are subtle meanings to the statement "requires XYZ add-on". For items such as new ships (SPACECRAFT.DLL) or planes
(AIRCRAFT.DLL), the indicated item is obviously an essential requirement. For others (like Space 1999 Shuttle), the need for
another add-on (like MoonBase Alpha) may just be an inconvenience (so land it somewhere else) or cause a CTD (if included
scenarios assume the base exists).

The LLMFD is essentially a complete, independent plugin. It's only (programmed) restrictions are a hover-engine
capable ship in orbit around Earth's moon with (non-programmed assumption) standard RCS engines for attitude control. The
"requirement" for AMSO and/or Tranquility Base is purely to provide an Apollo-like experience with the supplied
scenarios.  I've begun converting the NASSP4 Apollo 14 scenarios (see below), as NASSP5 supplies no mid-mission examples,
only launch scenarios.

Tracking changes made by OTHER add-on makers that becomes another issue (add-on A changes, which is "required" by B and C. B
is used in E, F, G and H. C is used in G, K, L,  M. F is used in...). I doubt that many add-on authors would go to the step
of editting and re-releasing all of their work to alter documentation from "requires XYZ version 1.1" to "requires XYZ
version 1.4" when it still works fine in the old one! And if it DOESN'T, then the author gets swamped with complaints from
Orbiter users with the current version installed who don't look at those README files you mention.

BTW, it sounds like you're planning on the release of the ultimate consolidated, consistant, non-dupicated Orbiter pack...but I know there are various non-compatible addons around (primarily conflicting meshes and/or textures); are you going to the the Orbiter patch system to "swap" add-ons around? But hang on, doesn't that make your system "dependent" on that? Would we have to pull down the 10 GB install file again when the patch system upgrades to 1.1??

Trevor Johns

BEGIN_DESC
(NASSP5 Updated Scenario)
Now moments away from PDI.

Note that the LM needs to be rolled right 90deg, and then pitched up 90deg.

Ignite the DPS at 408km from the target.

See y'all at Fra Maura!
END_DESC

BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT
  System Sol_NASSP5
  Date MJD 40987.3893212362
END_ENVIRONMENT

BEGIN_FOCUS
  Ship AS-509-LM
END_FOCUS

BEGIN_CAMERA
  TARGET AS-509-LM
  MODE Cockpit
  FOV 50.00
END_CAMERA

BEGIN_HUD
  TYPE Surface
END_HUD

BEGIN_MFD Left
  TYPE Launch
END_MFD

BEGIN_MFD Right
  TYPE Map
  REF Moon
  BTARGET Fra Maura
END_MFD


BEGIN_SHIPS
AS-509:saturn5nasp
  STATUS Orbiting Moon
  RPOS 634487.36 -15047.76 -1734461.43
  RVEL -1529.855 -35.963 -559.528
  AROT 179.91 -43.06 1.41
  PRPLEVEL 0:0.358 1:0.75
  NAVFREQ 0 0 0 0
  XPDR 0
  APOLLONO 14
  NASSPVER 50001
  STAGE 30
  STAGESTATUS 0
  DOCKSTATE 1
END
AS-509-LM:sat5_LMPKD
  STATUS Orbiting Moon
  RPOS 115399.08 -52202.52 -1760965.22
  RVEL -1678.929 -47.657 -74.331
  AROT -70.20 88.38 107.99
  PRPLEVEL 0:0.980 1:0.98
  NAVFREQ 500 502
  CONFIGURATION 1
END
END_SHIPS



Post Edited (04-09-04 03:25)