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Author Topic: DGII vs DGIII  (Read 11106 times)

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Offline harmsway

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13 July 2004, 14:25:47
SpaceCadet from the M6 Orbiter Forum is looking for the DGII.

http://orbit.m6.net/v2/read.asp?id=17220

Dan, maybe you can help this guy out. I believe he is confuse by your directions to use the DGII first because DGII
has documentation and DIII has not. So SpaceCadet is just trying to follow instructions and download the DGII. But
where?

Correct me if I'm wrong but my feelings on this is that the only reason the documentation for the DGII is not valid for
the DGIII is the flight instructions. The DGIII has different flight characteristics then the DGII and the flight computer
programming for DGII would proved to be bad programming on DGIII.

So if I'm right about this then the question becomes "do we have a good flight program for the DGIII flight computer?"

If so does Dan need help with the documentation for this?

Also if I'm right about this then the only reason to fly the DGII now would be for the flight computer autopilots. If you
don't care about the autopilots then flying the DGII doesn't make sence anymore.

Gene


Offline harmsway

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Reply #1 - 13 July 2004, 14:31:04
Opps........I posted this in the wrong forum. Moderator please move over to Dan's Add-ons


Offline DocHoliday

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Reply #2 - 13 July 2004, 14:49:57
Got it.


~~~

"Mood is a matter of choice. I choose to have fun!" -Vidmarism No 15

Offline DocHoliday

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Reply #3 - 13 July 2004, 15:01:31
On the topic of documentation, I am sure Dan could use help with it. He's way more busier than he used to be. True
that DGIII will probably change with the onset of the new Orbiter release, but I guess an attempt to update the
documentation would be quite welcome. I've seen more than once that people ask question about the DGIII on the
main forum. DGII would be forgotten by now if it wasn't for the references to it in the current docs.

About the flight computer programs: You have the default one which puts you in a nice orbit as it is, we also have an
alternative one I made for the Direct Ascent scenario and I am currently working on a program to put DGIII in a
190km circular orbit around Mars. I'm sure the rest of the "Dan's forum crew" have some of their own. Or did you
mean something else with "flight program"?

The new manual should also include instructions for the AE-35-style antenna, the EVA crew operation, the added
hover/autoland autopilots, examples of it all and an updated reentry/descent tutorial. Maybe a short overview of the
scenarios that come with the DGIII (Joe Drunk and all that). Also complete instructions on the DGIIIConfig program.
Possibly some info on how to create skins, but that would probably be too much, especially if Dan will change it
significantly in the next release.

Count me in for help though. I'm assuming you are also a candidate.

Cheers,


~~~

"Mood is a matter of choice. I choose to have fun!" -Vidmarism No 15

Offline harmsway

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Reply #4 - 13 July 2004, 17:35:39
Yes I would like to help. I need to finish my own add-on first and get it released. Then I can spent time on the DGIII. I
think between us we can have something out soon.

Thanks
Gene


Offline Wilko

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Reply #5 - 13 July 2004, 18:01:29
I put up for download that PFD checklist I created, if anyone wants to find it. It had everything from startup to
shutdown, well, mostly everything. Didn't get much attention though.


Offline DocHoliday

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Reply #6 - 13 July 2004, 20:40:03
Hey Wilco. That should be included too. Personally, I never use checklists, I know most of the procedures by heart :)
But for beginners it would be perfect!

Gene: Okay, good luck on your addon. I'll have a looksie at the current docs meanwhile. You're working on a new star
system?


~~~

"Mood is a matter of choice. I choose to have fun!" -Vidmarism No 15

Offline harmsway

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Reply #7 - 13 July 2004, 21:39:42
Yes I have a new star system coming out soon. I'm currently working on adding bases, stations and other surprises.


Offline DanSteph

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Reply #8 - 14 July 2004, 00:32:12
I'm really sad but I don't really have the time for Orbiter lastly
I'm programming to gain my life and it's not like office, it's more
12 hours per day.

Fortunately once what I do completed (can take somes month)
I'll be able to work again for the DGIII.

Anyway I can do small works, my next one will be to "unalpha" the DGIII
puting it in a more attractive download page as it seem it's a stable add-on
yet.  Keeping it as alpha don't make sense, many add-on don't have 1/10th
of the feature that it have and are "final" version.

The doc is the most time consuming , if anyone can help I will be really glad
because I'm affraid I can't do it. (changing a web page cost 1 hour or two only,
making a doc is far more time consuming)

For the forum my next php job would be to put "thread page" so long thread
are cut by page.

It seem I don't miss work,  I'm freelancer but perhaps I'll regret the office
in sometimes :)

Dan


Offline Wilko

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Reply #9 - 14 July 2004, 01:47:19
(Insert shameless self promotion here)

http://atlas.walagata.com/w/wilko/fr2.jpg

Heres the cover I made a while back. I have to look for the checklist because I've lost it already. I would be glad to
help out.

EDIT: And heres the PDF checklist

http://atlas.walagata.com/w/wilko/DGIII_Procedures.pdf

I based the layout upon a real airliner SOP booklet, and all the information there is valid. I also still have the .doc version in case anyone thinks changes should be made.



Post Edited ( 07-14-04 01:52 )


Offline AphelionHellion

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Reply #10 - 14 July 2004, 03:09:35
Dan: I'd be happy to write up some documentation for the DGIII!  :friend:
Just give me a quick list of the topics that you want covered and I can take it from there.
The one thing I'd ask is that I be able to do it in HTML format. That's what I'm used to working with - also I don't have
the software to make PDF files :)
PDFs bug me anyway - the reader takes up so much memory...


< [yellow]C[/yellow]arpe [yellow]N[/yellow]octem! >

Offline Wilko

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Reply #11 - 14 July 2004, 03:19:53
Ohhh but they're so professional :P I think we should make the whole documentation in some professional format,
just to keep the whole thing realistic. Realistic is always good... but hey its up to everyone else here I guess, take a
vote or something in the end if we get into a big debate. If anyone wants to collaborate (seeing as thats what its
gonna be like by the sounds of things) then count me into it.

Heres what I use to create PDF's. Totally free too.

http://www.download.com/CutePDF-Printer/3000-6675-10220039.html?tag=lst-0-1

Any suggestions for the SOP's?


Offline DanSteph

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Reply #12 - 14 July 2004, 04:34:13
Quote
AphelionHellion wrote:
Dan: I'd be happy to write up some documentation for the DGIII!  :friend:

Aphelion my friend... you'd be DA man if you do that :friend:

Quote
AphelionHellion wrote:
The one thing I'd ask is that I be able to do it in HTML format.

It's your day of luck, the starting point: the DGII's doc, is in plain html format
you can download it here: http://www.dansteph.com/publie/divers/Doc_DGII.zip
(unzip where you want, don't forget "use folder name" in winzip)

About what must be covered... mhhhh that's the question...
somes stuff may be corrected as the reentry explaination of the DGII
which doesn't match anymore really the DGIII (it's far more sensitive,
you can't no more bank and pitch like a mad before the speed is REALLY low (<1000m/s)

and some stuff should be added as the pro200 hover autopilot, the antenna, the EVA
the new DGIIIConfig, skins, new payload, fuel dump, new key etc etc... in fact
a good starting point would be to read careffuly the DGIII faq here :
http://orbiter.dansteph.com/forum/index.php?topic=11523.msg178270#msg178270
there is a list of new feature see "What's new on the DGIII that the DGII don't have ?" question

I don't know why, but  most of the questions asked in various forum about the DGIII
are already answered here but nobody ever point peoples on this faq... even the link
is in BIG RED FONT in the download page anyway that's not the subject.... Its an off
topic rant ;)

Another point could be to read also on the DGIII download page the list of updated things
under "New features/release history" here: http://orbiter.dansteph.com/index.php?disp=dgIII

Once done, it's easy to convert to PDF to look err.... "profesionnal"
(I think html is really great... appart for printing where pdf is better)

If a DGIII doc is done I'll rewrite a new nice download pages with all the
stuff, skin, doc, autopilot and custom check-list in good place.
I think the DGIII deserve that at least (again I'm really sad to not have the time
to work more on it... but .. money)

Cheers,

Dan
PS: doc if you read this: including your famous "right on the money" autopilot
would be a good idea for a new DGIII release.


Offline Wilko

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Reply #13 - 14 July 2004, 06:10:07
I meant if its printed, sorry, forgot to add that. Always have to keep a hardcopy anyway. Looks like Aphelion got the
job anyway, my work is done here.

*Disappears in a brilliant flash of light leaving a pair of fire trails behind* How I want a Delorean...


Offline DocHoliday

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Reply #14 - 14 July 2004, 09:30:24
Thanks Dan :)

So we have Gene, Wilco, AH and me :) I guess that's plenty. How do you do that then? Split the work into parts and
we all chew on their own part?

I suggest we all look at the current docs and the FAQs and then we write up a list of topics and each does what he is
best at and is easiest for them to do. The rest we'll spread somehow :)

Okay?


~~~

"Mood is a matter of choice. I choose to have fun!" -Vidmarism No 15

Offline Strogoff

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Reply #15 - 14 July 2004, 23:10:34
He guys !!
My English is awful, but if you want some help for html programming, i've just rewrite all the DGII doc in french and in real
Html... so Doc, i'm your's. !!



Offline Wilko

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Reply #16 - 15 July 2004, 02:11:18
I should probably clear up by what I mean by realistic. IMO, don't make the documentation for a simulated Orbiter
aircraft, make it for a 'real' DGIII, if you know what I mean. Oh I don't even know what I mean anymore.


Offline AphelionHellion

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Reply #17 - 15 July 2004, 07:02:13
Wilko: I think I know what you mean :)

"Congratulations on your organization's purchase of Polli Unlimited's DeltaGlider Mk3, the world's best-selling orbital
and suborbital trans-atmospheric vehicle! Before operating your new spacecraft, international and federal regulations
require you to familiarise yourself with the craft's systems and operating procedures, provided in this handbook. You'll
find topics arranged by system and procedure, as well as the corresponding procedures relevant to those items, in the
table of contents below (see appendix for additional illustrations and data)."

__________
_________
_______ etc :)


< [yellow]C[/yellow]arpe [yellow]N[/yellow]octem! >

Offline Wilko

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Reply #18 - 15 July 2004, 08:08:55
Hey there we go :D Wonder if the Shuttle SOP manual comes with an intro like that...


Offline DocHoliday

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Reply #19 - 15 July 2004, 08:55:59
And you have people like Freespace holding their heads, going: STOP USING THAT SOPHISTICATED LINGO. MY HEAD
IS THROBBING!! :)

:)


~~~

"Mood is a matter of choice. I choose to have fun!" -Vidmarism No 15

Offline freespace2dotcom

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Reply #20 - 15 July 2004, 12:58:48
Freespace was going to make a witty comment on that, but decided that it just wasn't worth it.

He will have his revenge when he makes a fancy manual himself.



Offline Wilko

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Reply #21 - 15 July 2004, 15:27:42


Heres a colour SpaceTech logo that I created if anyone wants to use it. It's also at the bottom of my cover.


Offline McBrain

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Reply #22 - 15 July 2004, 15:40:07
Wilko, is the SpaceTech site yours?

Then you should change the price of the products to a ficional currency, because it you are no more in the law-free zone now. Maybe you could use Orbyts like my website? :)


Cheers,

McBrain

----------------------------------------
In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates?

Offline DocHoliday

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Reply #23 - 15 July 2004, 15:41:55
Okay, I think we've got tone :)

I just went over the original docs and they are so well designed, we'll really have little work, but to add new features
and make the tutorials more complete and attach various Apendices like Checklists, Keyboard reference, Mission
tutorials (ascent, descent, adventures ...) - I am assuming we will stick some sample scenarios into the addon
package - like Art of Eva and some that were created later or should be created to demonstrate some features. I
would also dare to claim that we should include scenarios featuring Vespucci as the mothership (AH you have more
than enough experience for saying something about that).. this way, maybe Netioch will become enthisiastic again to
continue his great work, even though he lost the Vespucci source code and everything...

On the whole design. I think we should keep it simple. Like the current docs. BUT for the mission tutorials we can be
as creative as we want :) The text Wilco and AH come up would be perfect for a tutorial for an "Introductory Flight" to
show off the aerodynamics, spaceworthiness, turbo pumps and ascent/autohover autopilots :) Most of us learn best
by doing. And the tutorials are probably the one piece of this documentation that is BOUND to be printed by people.
So it should be .pdf, professional and "real" (Polli Unlimited thanks for you for purchising this FREE spacecraft, hehe)

Say Strogoff. You said, you just translated the docs to French. So you have the whole HTML structure and files set
up? Would it be possible to organise a FTP site and assign one  or more special usernames, so we could change the
documentation directly in one place?? To prevent the doc source being split up and then go through the problems of
integrating it.. We could just all edit the same files until they are a completed project... ?

Cheers to all.


~~~

"Mood is a matter of choice. I choose to have fun!" -Vidmarism No 15

Offline Wilko

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Reply #24 - 15 July 2004, 17:20:49
Yeah the site is mine, I had totally forgotten about it actually! I might have to update it someday.