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Author Topic: Thrust power  (Read 5379 times)

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Offline darkvoid

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13 July 2003, 01:06:43
Why does the G-SNDO have 270 KN hover thrust and only 180 KN main thrust power?!



Offline canadave

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Reply #1 - 13 July 2003, 01:53:54
Well, it's like this...In the engineering meetings during the design phase, there were a number of
very contentious debates over whether to make the hover engines more powerful (for liftoff from
heavy planets), or the main engines.  I remember an engineer by the name of Dr. Rockwell in
particular was quite vehement about the need for stronger hover engines.  Since he had been
with the space agency the longest, his opinion was deemed most important, and the nay-sayers
were voted down.  

Right Dan? :)

--Dave


Offline DanSteph

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Reply #2 - 13 July 2003, 02:39:15
Exactly :)

Dan


Offline darkvoid

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Reply #3 - 13 July 2003, 17:10:20
Now, seriously shouldn’t this be the other way around?
Or can't you at least make them equal (maybe 250KN) each in the next version?



Offline DanSteph

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Reply #4 - 13 July 2003, 17:30:35
The goal in fact was to reduce the power of the main thrust
in order to increase the challenge of flying the deltaglider.

If I reduce also the hover you will not anymore be able to
lift off from earth.

That's why.

Dan


Offline darkvoid

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Reply #5 - 13 July 2003, 21:21:29
In my opinion it was reduce too much you don't even have 1G with the MAIN thrust!
If this is an EARTH futuristic ship you should at least have 1G with the main thrust. This is of course
my opinion.
You could include an option in your ship config program that could increase or decrease main
thrust power... This you facilitate the use of deltagliderII for the people who like to use it to
explore other planets. And also and option to include more fuel :)


Offline canadave

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Reply #6 - 15 July 2003, 06:33:07
I think you're missing the point, to be honest.  You're probably correct in the sense that it would
be EASIER to fly Dan's DGII with more main thrust.  And probably more "realistic" in the sense that
a ship designed in "the year 2016" would probably have such capability.  Certainly, a ship with
more hover thrust than main engine thrust would not be "realistic".

But what I think Dan was trying to do (and correct me here if I'm way off on this, Dan) was to: a)
re-design the original DeltaGlider with neat things like life support and advanced panels, and b) re-
design the engines so that it would be *more challenging* to fly than the original.  Right now, with
thrust and fuel capabilities, Dan's DGII is more of a general-purpose, single-planet-system shuttle
than anything else--which, if you ask me, is just what a ship like that should be.   It always felt
weird being able to fly the original DeltaGlider to Jupiter and beyond from Earth; I never felt that a
ship that small would be "capable" of interplanetary flights of that scope.  

Anyway, to answer your other question, I don't believe a configurable thrust power setting
program is possible, given the way the DGII is designed.  I could be wrong, but that's what my
understanding is.

Now, how about this as a compromise--can we get some other ships, which are DESIGNED to be
interplanetary travelcraft from a thrust/fuel standpoint, to have DGII's great panels and life
support add-ons?  THAT to me is the "next great thing".

Cheers,
Dave



Post Edited (07-15-03 06:33)


Offline DanSteph

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Reply #7 - 15 July 2003, 10:27:18
You have successfuly changed the AE35 element Dave :)

Without Joke Dave is right on the money: One of the criticism
of the original DeltaGlider when I started to modify it was
that it was way too powerful to be chanlenging.

Anyway I understand very well that some find it too
underpowered in this matter there is as much taste than
pilot in orbiter.

Dan


Offline darkvoid

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Reply #8 - 15 July 2003, 14:46:49
canadave:
"Right now, with
thrust and fuel capabilities, Dan's DGII is more of a general-purpose, single-planet-system shuttle
than anything else--which, if you ask me, is just what a ship like that should be. It always felt
weird being able to fly the original DeltaGlider to Jupiter and beyond from Earth; I never felt that a
ship that small would be "capable" of interplanetary flights of that scope. "

So explain me why is Dan adding "added two and four years O2 reserve" if the deltaglider as no
autonomy?!
And why is Dan "adding reentry prediction now work for mars, venus, jupiter and some other”?!
And why is Dan "adding -atmosphere temperature calculated for planet."

I think this is great don't get me wrong ! But only if the DeltagliderII add more self-sufficiency !


Offline DanSteph

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Reply #9 - 15 July 2003, 15:33:49
> darkvoid wrote
> So explain me why is Dan adding "added two and four years O2 reserve"


Simple: because someone asked about it :)
but as o2 reserve is obviously a cheat (where to put
them in that small vessel?) I added this option
in the config program only as some don't mind cheating
while some others like more "real" ship.

About request I dont have always the time
or the possibilities to do modif and it's almost
impossible to satisfy 100% people or to do all the request
as stated in a previous post.

Of course all our add-on are not perfect we can alway do
better but one must consider that the panel only took me
nearly 3 month with several hours of work per day.

Now the dgII still improve but on the new Orbiter version
that is in beta-test this explain why there is no new release for
yet. With any chance the next dgII will be ready when the next version
of Orbiter will be ready (or shortly after) (don't ask me WHEN Orbiter
will be ready Martin is still working on it yet and he is as me : he have a real
life to live also)

Dan


Offline canadave

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Reply #10 - 15 July 2003, 18:06:27
Darkvoid:

Also, to address the question about "re-entry for Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus," etc--you're
forgetting that these planets don't have to be reached from Earth per se--a potential DG2 mission
would be to launch from Phobos and land on Mars.  Or launch from some other moon of some
other planet, and try to "re-enter" Jupiter's atmosphere--with that kind of gravity, it would be one
hell of a ride!

As Dan said--no add-on is going to please everybody.  If Dan changed the DG2 to your liking, I
suppose he'd then get a bunch of posts from people complaining that the ship is too powerful to
be "realistic".

Again, ideally, I think it would be great to have other ships that are more powerful than the DG2,
which feature the DG2's panels and switches and life support.  Then I think everyone would be
happy.  As it is, the only ship that is so advanced is the DG2, and that's why we're running into
these sorts of complaints--the DG2 isn't everyone's "cup of tea" as a spacecraft.

On a side note, if you're THAT unhappy about the issue of the thrust, might I suggest giving a go
at designing your own?  Otherwise, it seems to me to be faintly rude to complain, given that Dan
has done all this for free simply because he loves Orbiter and spaceflight.

Cheers,
Dave


Offline DanSteph

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Reply #11 - 15 July 2003, 18:25:40
Ideally I wish also to make an interplanetary
ship with the dgII panel or a better panel

in fact, we even started this project with a famous
modeler of Orbiter 's community (spoil spoil :) :) )
(no I'll not give his name until he decide itself to do so :)
but this project seem to be disabled for now while we have both
to much work on our hown... to bad the model he drawed and sent to me
looked good.

Finally the only things I regreat about the DGII is to not have
started to model a brand new ship before doing the panel
the DG isn't my ideal ship...
I would see more a transport ship for long trip sort of cargo or such.

But I didn't planed at all to do all the DGII panel, my goal at first was
only to add one switch or two to the stock DG :)

Dan


Offline C3PO

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Reply #12 - 15 July 2003, 20:35:53
DanSteph wrote:

> in fact, we even started this project with a
> famous
> modeler of Orbiter 's community (spoil spoil :) :) )
> (no I'll not give his name until he decide itself to do so :)
> but this project seem to be disabled for now while we have
> both
> to much work on our hown... to bad the model he drawed and sent
> to me
> looked good.


Man, I hope it's the Shuttle-A !!!!! I've had a lot of fun with that ol' crate :D


Offline DanSteph

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Reply #13 - 15 July 2003, 20:39:10
It was way more fat than shutlle-a ;)

Dan


Offline ENS2018

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Reply #14 - 15 July 2003, 22:58:29
DanSteph wrote:

> It was way more fat than shutlle-a ;)
>
> Dan

Hmm...now you've peaked my curiosity.  What other interesting projects could you have in
secret?  ;)

Well, no matter what it is, if it's anything compared to the DGII it'll be a blast if/when you and
the "famous modeler" decide to make it.

Tony

"I could drive safe, but where's the fun in that?" 8)



Offline DanSteph

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Reply #15 - 16 July 2003, 01:31:04
For now my main project is just to survive to the heat whe
have here: 36C° (97F) in my computer's room ... pffffff !

Dan


Leniad

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Reply #16 - 19 July 2003, 02:13:15
Hm... about hover thrust... you should add a control for the hover thrusters in the panel. After all, it
should be there with the main thrusters...

« Last Edit: 19 July 2003, 02:13:15 by Leniad »