Next version of DGII?

[Spets]

it's been more than two months since the previous beta release of the delta glider... where's da
latest verison? any ETA?

[DanSteph]

2 month 8o ? hem are you.... sure ?  

.. well... don't know I'm busy with other stuff now
too bad because the version I have have some nice new feature
but I cannot release it like that.

Dan

[canadave]

>.. well... don't know I'm busy with other stuff now
>too bad because the version I have have some nice new feature
>but I cannot release it like that.

Now that's just cruel, Dan :P  Why don't you just tell us "nyah nyah nyah nyahhhhhh" too while
you're at it??

Dave

[DanSteph]

Oops I didn't intented to be cruel, sorry  
Just keep you informed of what marvelous feature
are working already

Nhaaa there is not much things appart the calculator,
planete atmosphere temp profile and some other minor stuff.
You aren't missing too much.

But I heard lately that you fly with the shutlle instead
of using the DG2 ? ???

Oh could this be  ? .... Oh dave ... you told me
I was thinking.....

Well

Dan

[canadave]

Shuttle???  What shuttle?? *frantically hiding the shuttle behind my back*

lol no, actually I've been using the DG2 lots.  It's just that I just noticed the latest shuttle versions
have come out (Endeavour 2.1, etc), so I wanted to play around with those a little bit.  But the
DG2 is still the nearest and dearest to my heart, Dan, no fear!

Dave

[DanSteph]

Canadave wrote:
Shuttle??? What shuttle?? *frantically hiding the shuttle behind my back*

LOL

Dan

[Spets]

ah, alright, I understand. I've become too acustomed to those twice monthly beta releases

any chance you have the beta of the next Orbiter version?

[reekchaa]

...Still drooling here, too.  

[DanSteph]

Sorry for the long delay,

Good news I will also take part in the beta test of Orbiter
so I hope that the DGII as well as the new version of
OrbiterSound will be both ready when the next version
will come out and take advantage of the new Orbiter's feature.

About "pre-beta" testing of the DGII this would be possible
for someone that is also beta tester while all my coding will now
be dedicated to news Orbiter version.

Cheer to all,

Dan

[Spets]

any possible way for me to become a beta tester of the next orbiter and DGII? who's buttocks
do I have to kiss?

[canadave]

In my humble opinion, anyone who's a major Orbiter add-on developer (such as our forum patron
saint Dan, or the guys who did the NASSP package) should be in on the "official" Orbiter beta test.  The rest of us should just sit tight and wait for what will certainly be a wonderful new release.

I fail to see the big deal about being a beta tester for Orbiter anyway.  Unless you're an add-on
developer, all it probably means is that you want a copy of the next release of Orbiter sooner than the next guy.

Hmmm.  Now that I read my post I guess that sounds a little personal and harsh.  I don't mean it
to be.  It's just that I'm so sick to death of reading posts (not here necessarily--more so in the "official" Orbiter forum, or indeed in almost ANY game/application/utility forum), where people are begging to be beta testers just so they can either a) get their hands on the game/application/utility in question before everyone else does, or b) brag to everyone in the forum that they're beta testing this cool game/application/utility.  Know what I mean, folks?

*sigh* I think I'm getting crochety in my old age.... just ignore me, please, it's almost 4am here
now....

Cheers,
Dave



Post Edited (06-03-03 11:54)

[harmsway]

Not long ago Dan was putting out revs faster then I could keep up with them. So now I'm enjoying
the break.

In the past three or more weeks I have had no time to fly Orbiter.
In fact I have had little time on my home puter other then check email. Oh yeah, I have been real
sneaky to change the look of my website now and then. But I was relieved to see Dan slowed
down as well, even to the point where he was fussing over XP install.

All this makes me , how close can I stay to my passions and still take care of wife &
home?

Look here boys ( and Michelle ) I'm ready to jump back in the DGII again, only next week I'm
headed to the Florida Keys. Best fly this week and soon.

Oh, a .. and Dave...IMHO about BETA testing..em...What you said.

Gene

[DanSteph]

I think the beta tester's first duty is to be discreet
about what he test so the developper isn't upset
by various pressure and the second  quality is to be
somewhat proficient in programming or at least in
computer so he can give good feedback
about what's going wrong.

So I will now switch to "tomb" mode about orbiter  
but I'll still keep you informed about DGII's news.

Dan

[shadow151]

it think i would be good to say that your a tester that way we know the next version is coming
soon

[Michelle Megan]

Nice of you to think about me Gene.

As for testing... I feel I'm still testing myself.
I made it to Mars with the DGII for the first time and on the first try. Um.. Long flight. I used
only the default Transfer MFD and the Encounter MFD and I printed up a Tutorial I found from the
TransX site. But the old one at the bottom not the TransX tutorial.

Was a good flight, but my launch window was late ( I chanced it anyway ) Left Earth Orbit at Apr
16 / 2001 / 1800 UTC. and arrived at Nov 11 / 2001 / 315 UTC. Yep... twas 7 months, rather than
the estimated 4 months had I made the launch window on time.

A real learning experience, I then tried to calculate the next return ( Mars - Earth ) launch window,
to my amazement I figured it would be on April 30 / 2003. hee hee, plenty of time to explore
Phobos, and Deimos Now I see why NASA sais a Mars mission would take 2 years...I also noticed
a couple of interesting items. like the no atmosphere untill 20k ( mars ) then all at once you are in
the thick of it. literaly, Was like 0 G to 3.9 G in a split second. needless to say the DGII bounced a
few times off the wind wall.

Another interesting thing if not a stumper for me is the Transfer variables for the return trip like
the - negative DV needed for the burn.... um.... ah.... Uh Buh?

I figure the negative DV is in relation to the orbit around the Sun, But I need a Positive DV to eject
from Mars. So whats the move then? leave Mars behind then slow down for earth randevous?
Hmmm this requires more thought... hee hee and some of the classmates in Physics said it was
boring. they never flew Orbiter thats for sure. *giggle*

Michelle

[canadave]

lol funny post....

How the heck did you get to Mars using the DG2???  There's so little fuel.  Did you start in Earth
orbit with a full tank of gas?  And did you "align plane" with Mars before burning out of Earth
orbit?  Just aligning planes from Mir takes me a lot of fuel, let alone from the ISS (forget about it,
ISS is useful for Earth activities and that's it...as an interplanetary jumping-off point it sucks!)

The sudden change in atmospheric pressure at 20k over Mars IS disconcerting, to say the least.  I
hope that's changed in the next Orbiter version.

The positive/negative DV question stumped me too, until someone clued me in.  The idea is to
burn prograde in Mars orbit, but make sure the burn is done as you are traveling in the OPPOSITE
direction to Mars' orbit around the sun.  In other words, if you picture an MFD with the Sun as a
dot in the centre of the MFD, and a circle around that dot representing Mars' orbit, and Mars is a
dot at the bottom of the MFD within the circle, traveling clockwise, then your ship should burn to
the LEFT while the "Mars dot" is traveling to the RIGHT.

That way, you'll escape Mars' orbit (prograde burn) but your net velocity relative to the Sun will
decrease.  And you're on your way home to Canada

Hope that helps,
Dave

[DanSteph]

I made mars also with DGII but if I recall well I saved the scenary once in orbit
to boost a bit the fuel with the "fuel cheat" I must say it was an amazing flight
transx of duncan is a wonderful tool. (I loved the middle course correction )

What you can do also while waiting a better atm model
is to change the atm limit of mars.cgf  to 200k as follow:

; === Atmospheric Parameters ===
AtmPressure0 = 0.699e3
AtmDensity0 = 0.02225
AtmAltLimit = 200e3
AtmColor0 = 0.36 0.26 0.13

No change appart that you don't have this sudden limit when entering atm
and the brake start earlier.

Dan

[Michelle Megan]

Hello again.

Canadave: to get to Mars using only the default transfer MFD and the encounter MFD I applied the
lessons learned from the link below... See the bottom of the page marked Mars by Delta glider. and I also modified the trip using the following:

http://www.orbitermars.co.uk/oldindex.htm

I launched from Cape Canaveral and docked with Mir for refuel. I had 3 peeps onboard with a 1
year + O2 supply ( just in case )

After I left MIR I calculated where my Eject point would be and nulled out the ECC to 0.0001 After
that I made a Highly elliptical orbit placing the periapsis directly on the eject point, But I did not
complete the burn fully for orbit ejection, instead I shut down when the Apoapsis put me at a 5000
high orbit while maintaining the low periapsis at around 350k. before I completed a full orbit I
aligned the plane for 0.00 in relation to Mars, Was a real fuel saver when burning at the high orbit
instead of trying to allign at the lower 350 K.
Anyway once the plane was alligned I Hit full burn as I passed the periapsis again and completed
the Delta V for ejection to Mars...

Using the encounter MFD, Allignment MFD and Sync MFD ( after I was far from Earth 0.01G on Orbit
MFD ) I again alligned the Plane and used the Sync to rendevous with Mars. In all it took about 4 -
6 correction burns along the way.

When I arrived at Mars I still had better than 62% fuel onboard. plenty for capture and a perfect landing at Olympus base. At no time did I have to invoke the fuel cheat and yes I had the realistic fuel ( low )
setting enabled

Oh and Dave thanks for the tip about the (slowed Sun orbit negative delta V mars ejection burn) <-
- Yeah thats it.. I think.... But it makes sense Ill have to try that on April 30 / 2003

I have been flying the same senario which started on March 14/ 2001 / 1230 UTC the date is now
November 22/ 2001... I have some time to go.  A few runs to Phobos and Deimos should help to
pass the time, I also have a second DGII parked at the Cape on earth that I can use till the Mars
return trip. (I use an original DG to mark my place since orbiter doesn't like 2 DGII's per scenario).
then switch the info from DG to DGII depending which I want to fly. like the DGII at mars or the
DGII on earth... So if I fly the Earth DGII, I switch the Mars DGII info to a default DG and vise versa.
This way I maintain the apearence of having 2 DGII in the same scenario while saving the location
information for the one I don't use.

Oh and thanks Dan for the Mars ATM FIX, I shall enter those figures in after this letter and try a
Mars orbit and reentry to test it

Lastly in my observations I made after my flight to Mars I checked the earth reference orbit and
noticed that ISS had landed on earth. (LOL too funny) and MIR was now orbiting the Sun, not
earth. darn orbit degrading... I hope this gets addressed in the next version. I keep the original
orbits in a seperate senario file and just replace them over and over after every flight to maintain
proper station orbits. ( thanks heavens for walkarounds ) hee hee.

I used to use antifall.dll but this would cause my crew to die after an 87689 G burst from the
antifall correcting module. ( bummer ). I had to do away with it for that reason. ergo the station re-
orbit walk around.

whew.. but enough about me.. how was your flight?
I can just hear it now... " That girl just doesn't shut up " lol

Michelle



Post Edited (06-05-03 00:53)

[canadave]

LOL....

*jaw slackening* huh?

*dumb voice* uhhhh....I just fire the engines and it goes somewhere.  "Nulled the ECC and
pointed the periapsis at who did what"?????  Oh...you must be one of those people who actually
knows what they're doing and reads the manual! :0

Actually, the idea of Mir orbiting the Sun is kind of interesting....try docking with it!  I wonder how
much more difficult that would be than docking with it in normal Earth orbit.

Glad to have been of some help with the negative delta V trick.  

Cheers,
Dave

[harmsway]

whew.. but enough about me.. how was your flight?
I can just hear it now... " That girl just doesn't shut up " lol

Michelle

Go girl.......no way shut up.....hearing a girl talk like this is almost better then you posting your
picture. lol

My wife says I'm the only one who would "play" Orbiter. She doesn't see the attraction in a black
screen with a bunch of tiny numbers. Somehow she misses the beautiful planet rolling
underneath my ship. Neither can I convince her there is a whole community out here. Anyway,
she's my best friend and we have a lot of fun together outside of Orbiter.

Your retake of your flight brought to mind some thoughts I have for my website. I have been
thinking of writing some 'Adventures in Orbiter'. They would be scenarios people could fly with a
mission in mind. Some of you may remember a guy who wrote a couple of books for flight sim that
were nothing but these outlined flights with a purpose.

Thanks again, I enjoyed reading

Gene

[harmsway]

Hmm......another thought just occurred to me after re-reading my own post.

If some of you have particular flight adventures you have done that were especially enjoyable to
you and would like to share them I would be glad to consolidate them on my website. Just write
them up and email them to me.

Gene

[Yeffers]

I've made it to Mars in the DGII without refueling in Earth orbit. I used Ellington's NAVmfd and
made two aerobraking passes to conserve fuel. On the first pass I set the dgII's reentry autopilot
to hold 50 degrees, which was a good thing because all of my passengers passed out, and I
assume the pilot nearly did also. At the height of the decceleration I was pulling about 9 g's, but
this lasted only a few seconds. Temperature wise, the hull overheated into the "yellow" range but
this too only lasted a few seconds.

The second pass was more gentle and got me into a nice low orbit, and I landed two orbits later
at Olympus with 7% fuel left. My virtual self was probably sweating pretty heavily at this stage,
not too much room for error.

I have to say that it is very rewarding to fly these journeys with realistic restrictions. It almost
feels like I am accomplishing something tangiable.

I'd reccommend you all give Ellington's Navmfd a go If you haven't already, it makes interplanetary
travel a whole lot more accessible. On one of my flights I went from Earth > Venus > Earth > Mars
with the only major burns being for plane allignment, and gravity doing the rest of the work. And I
didn't even have to use a calculator once. When I first started using orbiter I didn't even imagine
performing manouveres like this. At one stage I will probably attempt to emulate the journeys of
the two Voyager probes. The autoburn feature in navmfd is defunct in the current version of
orbiter (it only performs approximately 66% of the burn) but it is still in my opinion the most useful
mfd addon.

One of the most, how to say it, cinematic moments I had in orbiter was a flight to Callisto using
the stock dg in the current version of orbiter. I wasn't aware of the new fuel limitations when I
took off, but thought I'd try to make it to Jupiter anyway. After the lonely trip, I set up my orbit to
sync with Callisto. By this stage fuel was at about 10%. By the time I was in orbit, 3%. In the end
I ended up flying about 10km over the base, with nothing left in the tank. I could see all the
landing pads clearly, but there was absolutely no way to get down. It felt like a movie moment.
Then I decided to end my little virtual passengers' misery and blew the airlock (hit alt-f4)

[canadave]

OK, good....maybe someone will finally explain the NAVmfd thing to me.  I had heard that this is an
awesome tool, but not compatible AT ALL with the latest version of Orbiter.  Also, in just looking
around for it, I find a NAVmfd by a David Canard, but not an "Ellington".  Is this one and the same?

Cheers,
Dave

[Yeffers]

It is in fact very compatible. The only part of it which doesn't work is the autoburn, due to some
issues in the new release the computer only burns for 2/3 of the required burn time, so you have
to manually complete the rest of the burn, but this isn't much of a hassle. Sometimes there are a
few glitches in these predictions, but these seem to get resolved by just turning the mfd on and
off, and aren't really much of an issue.

The version I use is 2.5 (the latest I believe?) and I find it invaluable.

I can't remember where I got it, but I have uploaded it to my webspace so you can just grab it
from there:

http://users.bigpond.net.au/yeffs/navmfd25.zip

[canadave]

Wow...thanks!!  I just downloaded and installed it.  Looks like it works just fine!  This is going to
take some getting used to....it means I'm going to have to actually READ again...haven't done that
in awhile! lol

Thanks again,
Dave