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Author Topic: REQUEST: Atmospheric temp table  (Read 9292 times)

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Offline DanSteph

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16 March 2003, 14:30:15
While this question come so frequently I decided
to implement atmospherique temperature with table
so the temperature display D3 will be correct
(eg: 19° on earth, -50 at 10000m etc etc)

I have some question:

-What is the exact temperature of space ? : -270.0C° ? -273.0C° ?

I have a table for earth but I will need the others one
for all planet that have an atmosphere in the solar system
those table should show temp from ALT 0 to alt 400KM
by 10KM step (or until the temp fade in space one)

Or at least for Venus and Mars

Any data welcome I tried to find some but did lost a lot of time
that could be better put in programming.

Thanks for any help, link or data.

Dan


Offline DanSteph

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Reply #1 - 16 March 2003, 15:53:28
Done, You have atmospheric temp.....
It Was less difficult than my first thought.

Now it miss me only the table for other planet than earth


Dan


Offline DanSteph

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Reply #2 - 16 March 2003, 22:14:42
And now you have also wheater.... :)

Each time you enter a SOI of a planet a table is
filled with data until 400km high. The lower data
near surface are also randomised with possible value
so the temp may vary on planet's surface.
Wings and cabin temperature with all door open will
show the same temperature.

Temp on mars surface is average -60c° but can raise
until 20c°   someday.
If you are lucky, don't forget your sun glasses and a
T-shirt next time you go there.... 8)


Dan



Offline Quaxo

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Reply #3 - 16 March 2003, 22:50:12
Hello Dan,
The 0K (or "absolute zero", the "top of the cold") corresponds to -273.15C. I don't know though if
space reaches such a low temp - after all, there are some atoms around even in outer space. And
anyway, you could want to consider that there would be some heat losses from the inside of the
ship, so the outer ship parts wouldn't get so cold...

Cristian


Offline DanSteph

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Reply #4 - 16 March 2003, 23:13:20
Hello Quaxo,

Eric tellier have sent me an interesting document he find on a NASA page:


"It depends on whether you are asking what is the temperature "of" space, or the temperature of
things that are "in" space. Strictly speaking, space really doesn’t have any temperature since it is
mostly empty. Only things that can be found in space such as atoms and ions, have any
temperature. Near Earth and the Moon, if you are in direct sunlight, you could heat up to 250
degrees F (121 degrees C). This is hotter than boiling water at 212 degrees F. In the shade, it can
cool to around -250 degrees F (-156 degrees C). This is why astronauts must wear thermal space
suits."
      

I will only consider the shade case while the captor are protected from sun
so the lower temp near earth-moon should be -156C°

Well well well,


And now what do you think:

1- temp of  space depend from distance of the sun ?
2- temp is about -156C° into the whole solar system and go perhaps lower
   in some really empty space outer of solar system ?
3- temp is a complex combinaison of ***pressure*** of space and
    distance from sun as well as the type of molecule encountered.
    and solar wind.

I would say 3....  space isn't so simple for an "empty" things.

Dan


Offline bgreman

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Reply #5 - 16 March 2003, 23:33:34
Temperature of things drop as they get further from the sun.  I don't know if it's a linear
relationship, but consider that the temperature at Mercury daylight (it has no atmosphere) is
about 700K.  Out around Neptune, it really doesn't matter whether it's day or night.  Triton surface
temp (negligible atm.) is around -350' F.  Sorry for my incosistent units.


CRASHBANGRUMBLEBUMPHISS

Houston...we've flushed our toilet.

Offline canadave

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Reply #6 - 17 March 2003, 05:51:01


Offline Arkalius

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Reply #7 - 17 March 2003, 09:02:51
      Also, if possible, it might look better if you can put that little "degrees" circle
on the temperature
display in D3. If it takes up too much room or won't fit, it's no big deal, but I did originally find it
confusing to whether or not it was actually temperature because of that. On the other hand you
could change it to Kelvin (K) and not have to worry about that symbol (or a minus sign for negative
numbers in fact). But then degrees Celsius is a bit more intuitive I suppose...

-Arkalius

Offline Quaxo

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Reply #8 - 17 March 2003, 10:55:32
Hi Dan,
The document you quote from Eric Tellier makes perfect sense - an "empty space" doesn't have a
temperature. It's right, temperature is the atomic "vibrations", but in a void there's nothing which
vibrates! :-) So we can talk only about temperatures of things, like ships, in outer space.
If you don't consider the "sunlit" part, but only the "shade" case, I don't think that the
temperature would decrease when getting farther from the sun. Inner planets are hotter because
their lit portion gets more sun radiation - but I suppose that (assuming that they have no
atmosphere, and that their rotation is slow) the temp in the dark side is the same regardless of
the distance from the sun...
All of this, assuming that the solar system is an "even" space - I mean, that you don't encounter
region with higher concentration of dust or other particles...

Cristian


Offline bgreman

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Reply #9 - 17 March 2003, 13:06:17
This isn't the case though.  The solar system gets less dense as one gets further from the sun, as
insolation decreases with the square of the distance from the sun.  There is less total energy a
given volume of space at distance x from the sun than at distance y, given that x>y.  However,
note bene:  The gas giants give of their own thermal energy.  Uranus, in fact, gives off more than it
takes in.  So perhaps this might have to be taken into account?


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Offline DanSteph

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Reply #10 - 17 March 2003, 13:39:01

I agree with you bgreman ***density***, solar wind and sun power decrease
as we go further in solar system this should lead in an apparent
decrease of the "temperature" for now the decrease is linear with
the distance but if someone can find any deep space temperature
for another location than earth-moon I would be able to calculate how the temp
should decrease.  At mars now you have -244c° and -156c° on earth.
Planet further than mars have -270c°

With my table system the thermal energy of uranus can be modeled until ground
the only problem is that I must find those table... for now I have done table
for earth and mars. Planned is at least venus perhaps mercury and titan/europe.
(still searching those data)

On other corps without table the temp will increase from the "empty space temp"
but just a bit as we go lower until surface.... (radiated energy ?)
This will not be really accurate but without table it's nothing I can do
solar system temperature are just too complex to be "calculated".      

Too bad I recall having read something about this subject in a scientific
book but cannot recall which one and I have just too many book to read
them all again.

Dan


Offline bgreman

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Reply #11 - 17 March 2003, 17:08:19
Sorry, I made a mistake.  Uranus, for some reason, has no appreciable internal energy source, but
Neptune does, making their local spaces about equitemperature.


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Offline DanSteph

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Reply #13 - 18 March 2003, 21:31:29
Many thanks Rich,

I will have a look on your link

Dan


Offline DanSteph

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Reply #14 - 20 March 2003, 00:20:11
Rich,

OUTSTANDING,

The first link is exactly what I searched in vain during hours
I will update the venus's atmosphere while I'm downloading the Seth's
venus high-res texture and do a litle visit to it :)

Thanks again,

Dan

« Last Edit: 20 March 2003, 00:20:11 by DanSteph »