Looks like the community is having many young people around

[ar81]

I recall the good ol' days at Infogrames/Atari forums...
From time to time you had threads that read like "N00B NEEDS URGENT HELP" or "I can't beat mission X, aaargh!!".
Other thread titles did not indicate what the question was about.

The funny thing was that it has been such a friendly forum that many members still remain there even if the games
that brought them there are not but a memory in history of humanity.

We shared some moments, from tips to win missions, spoilers, and personal experiences like "I have a new dog" or "I
crashed the car" and everything helped to build a real sense of community.  But those kids were very smart,
sometimes we even discussed about economics or the latest news.

After the release of Unreal Tournament you started to see a giant wave of trolls flooding the forum with flames, pron
and so.  But the community had a certain culture and selfregulated, with some help from the mods.  But it survived
and remained as the best forum I have known ever.  I recall that I saw people from Australia, Finland, South Africa,
USA, UK, etc...

If you come to those forums and say "Hello I am new" you still get a warm welcome.
In 1999 new threads got a response in a amtter of seconds.  This will give you an idea of how many people were
roaming there.

Nowadays rumors say that Atari has made a series of poor decisions and eventually the forum could be shut down.
This some sort of sad news.  Dreadnaught, one of the moderators, who was once modder of "Independence War", a
cool, smart, patient and down to Earth guy who was 15 by then, was collecting our contact data to recall us in case
the forum is shut down.

Interestingly enough, I am starting to see the same kind of young people around Orbiter community, and I can't but
to feel hope that the great community I had in Independence War could be seen here.

I recall some fan projects about fan stories and fan art that Dreadnaught and I had.  I recall those smart people that
we had there.  You had people thinking about the future in a very futuristic way, we had people discussing with lots
of passion but also providing lots of ideas, and in a matter of minutes you had a very long thread with lots of
contributions of people.

I really hope I can see a rebirth of what it was the Independence War community in the Orbiter community.

Several years have passed since 1999 and still you see people making mods...

[Hubleman]

Ah so true, many smart people in the community, young and old.

[GXE3]

I agree...
When I was new to orbiter and to this website, a lot of people helped me get on my feet. I want to pass it on and
share my knowledge to those in need of help.

[Urwumpe]

I think the most significant change in the M6 forum is the lack of "RTFM"-class questions. The beginners have become much
more professional, using tutorials and manuals before asking a question, which IMHO helps both sides:

If you know both manual and tutorials, you can formulate your questions more specific, which helps experiences Orbiteers to
help you.

I remember times when we had five RTFM-class questions in the main Orbiter forum active, currently, its only one, but we
still have a normal number of Newbie questions, regarding operations and basic maneuvers. Thats something, that can be
explained a lot in the manuals, but will always cause further questions... Just by reading a book, nobody learned to drive a
car, right?

[ar81]

I may disagree about that, because I see RTM references from time to time.
BTW, RTFM expression in the gaming community is a bit rude, because of the F word.
But anyway, what make me happy is to see kids enjoying new, healthy and educational ways of entertainment.
20 hours of Orbiter makes you to learn more than 20 hours of Wolfstein 3D or equivalents.

[Urwumpe]

It depends on which F word you see. For Orbiters Manual, its sure formidable. Read the formidable manual. Can't see something
rude behind it.

[Kadet]

it's not everyday you see kids using orbiter, but for some reason they take more interest in it too.(even if parents say
bad things about using it)

[woo482]

I am young-ish and I am allredy a mod

[ar81]

Bad things I can come to think that parents could say about Orbiter.

-My son is addicted to Orbiter, it would be better if he was addicted to something more real like drugs or FPS games
where people shoot, that could serve for something more real like school shooting.

-Not violent enough for my taste.

-My son is becoming an astrophysics geek.

-He is becoming a math geek, his grades are very high in math, instead of being normal.

-Why in the world kids should be thinking about TransLunar Injection, instead of thinking about the next national
soccer game.

-With Orbiter, kids think they know it all.  The worst thing is that when he asks me a question on space travel or
astrophysics I have no idea about how to answer.

-Orbiter ridiculized me.  I told my kid that shuttle turned on the engines after deorbit to fly like a normal plane to the
runway.

If you had a good laugh, it is mostly certain that my experience shows that no parent I have known in my workshops
have ever complained about Orbiter.

[Urwumpe]

It could also just mean it distracts him from other important subjects. Spaceflight is the result of mastering many
disciplines.  Playing Orbiter is nice, but you won't master it without learning other things.

Astronauts are no geeks. They are smart and disciplined persons, with a very good physical fitness. They are not masters in
one field, but masters in many. Orbiter is a nice game for people who can't become astronauts, or are not capable of
engineering. But it is a game in the end for many. Just a game. Nothing gets learned past what is really necessary in many
cases.

I would prefer it, if people here would not only recommend children Orbiter, but also friends, sports and funs. Astronauts
love fun. And its important to have enough experiences in many fields of life to become astronaut... or just enjoy life.

So, turn off the PC, go out for a walk (even when its dark. Orbiter's sky does not have so many shades of black as the real
sky - having the chance to experience the sky in the mountains at night or listen to sun rise getting closer, is an
experience you should also not miss). Take the world and make it yours. And bring a part of it back to Orbiter from time to
time.

[Kadet]

ar81 wrote:
Bad things I can come to think that parents could say about Orbiter.

-My son is addicted to Orbiter, it would be better if he was addicted to something more real like drugs or FPS games
where people shoot, that could serve for something more real like school shooting.

-Not violent enough for my taste.

-My son is becoming an astrophysics geek.

-He is becoming a math geek, his grades are very high in math, instead of being normal.

-Why in the world kids should be thinking about TransLunar Injection, instead of thinking about the next national
soccer game.

-With Orbiter, kids think they know it all.  The worst thing is that when he asks me a question on space travel or
astrophysics I have no idea about how to answer.

-Orbiter ridiculized me.  I told my kid that shuttle turned on the engines after deorbit to fly like a normal plane to the
runway.

If you had a good laugh, it is mostly certain that my experience shows that no parent I have known in my workshops
have ever complained about Orbiter.

exactly what my parents tell me, except the shooting and drugging part, that would be WEIRD and SCARY!

[ar81]

What is certain is that if someone wants to become astronaut, and he has limited personal life, he might not be able
to establish the contacts to become astronaut.  Also, if he fails in sports, he might not be in proper condition for
piloting aircraft, flying inside a vomit comet, let alone becoming an astronaut.

So I disagre with you, Urwumpe.

As soon as you know that astronauts know math, you want to know math.  As soon as you know that astronauts
have good physical shape, you may stay in shape.  And as you know that astronauts need to establish contacts with
other people and be a raw model for society, kids may want to do that.

[Urwumpe]

Only few children born are determined to never become astronauts. Most who don't become astronaut just fail because there is
a very limited number of astronauts needed, and a large number of people who can do that.

If you want to inspire people, don't show them a easy way out to hunt illusions and dreams. That makes people just lazy and
stupid. Orbiter is an illusion. A dream world. Anybody can play astronaut here - and never become one in reality.

Because astronauts don't become astronauts because they are skilled with Orbiter. They become astronaut because they can do
complex work in the hardest environment possible. And they don't learn to survive there in front of a computer alone.

[MartySpaceLines]

ar81 a écrit:
-My son is addicted to Orbiter, it would be better if he was addicted to something more real like drugs or FPS games
where people shoot, that could serve for something more real like school shooting.

-Not violent enough for my taste.

-My son is becoming an astrophysics geek.

-He is becoming a math geek, his grades are very high in math, instead of being normal.

-Why in the world kids should be thinking about TransLunar Injection, instead of thinking about the next national
soccer game.

-With Orbiter, kids think they know it all.  The worst thing is that when he asks me a question on space travel or
astrophysics I have no idea about how to answer.

-Orbiter ridiculized me.  I told my kid that shuttle turned on the engines after deorbit to fly like a normal plane to the
runway.

You forget one thing a parent (e.g. my father) would say:

-I'm jealous of my son, cause he can land a DGIV and I can't!

[ar81]

You may want to be LIKE an astronaut, but you do not need to be an astronaut to be like that.

You may have only one Superman with super powers, but lack of superpowers does not mean you can't be honest
like Superman.

But what is certain is that a person without dreams WILL not be an astronaut.
A person who pursue the goal of being astronaut might or might not be an astronaut.
For example, if Costa Rican astronaut Frankling Chang Diaz was a kid now and he reads what you say, he might have
considered that he might not be anastronaut and he could have given up without trying.

When I came with the dream of teaching kids to fly Orbiter, I was told that it was not possible.  But it was.
What is certain is that if you do not pursue your dreams, it is not likely that your dreams come for you.

My particular experience with parents and kids is that Orbiter makes kids to have more interest on what they learn at
school.  To me, that's enough evidence of how useful Orbiter is, unless you have proven experience in teaching kids
to fly Orbiter that prove the opposite.

[ar81]

Bad things I can come to think that parents could say about Orbiter.

-My son became an astronaut because he played orbiter when he was a kid, and every single time he is in space I
freak out, thinking about heat shield failure.
-I do not want my daughter to become an astronaut, I prefer her to grow as a housekeeper.
-I do not want my son to become astronaut, I would like him to be like me.
-An orbiter killed a teacher during ascent, and a teacher is teaching Orbiter to my kid...

[Colonel Sanders1]

im young and i dont even no where to begin with this game...


i havent even done an actuall mission....

[Kadet]

I'm 11 years old and I've use orbiter for 1 and a half years and I still can't get into orbit, re-enter correctly or transfer
to another planet.



Post Edited ( 12-23-07 02:51 )

[Colonel Sanders1]

Ya same here... i havent even began to mess with the tutorials or anything.  I probably would not have even searched for a
spaceflight sim if i had never been to the The Kansas Cosmosphere where they had a spaceflight sim where you had to land the
atlantis shuttle and did it on the first try... They have a lunar lander and the apollo 13 capsule i think or thats what they
wanted me to believe

[R Groszewski]

I started with orbiter when I was 11, and I *still* can't transfer, de-orbit at the right time to be able to land at the
Cape, I suck at re-entry, and If I had Half a penny for every missed docking approach, I'd be the richest person on
earth before age 20.  But even with all my failures, you know what keeps me attached to orbiter? The realism, the challenge
of trying to successfully launch a space craft and come back in one piece, and a lot more. And I *still* haven't bothered to
RTM...  If Orbiter didn't exist, I wouldn't be sitting here keying a response in Dan's forums, I wouldn't have my love for
aviation and aerospace, I wouldn't have the DGIV to try and perform an emergency landing with no gear, no power, at       2
am in the morning.  The point is-There are some young people who see Orbiter as a way to gain knowledge, not as a boring
"game" where you just "fly around". Just my 2 and 9/10 cents...

[ar81]

To succeed at entry you need DGIV and AerobrakeMFD.
With both you can make an entry without even turning your engines on...
I have done it several times.  Not really too tricky once you understand Aerobrake MFD.

Make your orbit circular at 150 km, start deorbit burn in the opposite side of the planet, set entry autopilot and then
use Aerobrake MFD and RCS engines to make small corrections so impact point is right on your base.

When you are at 15 km, turn off all autopilots and glide to the runway.