Why Do You like Orbiter?

[NASSAC]

I have been an advid space fan since I was a kid. I used to follow the space program with great interest. I would
read everything I could get my hands on and I even kept a scrap book of news clippings. I was in second grade when
Alen B. Shepherd was Lauched from Cap Canaveral atop the Mercury Redstone Rocket. I was there, in time , not
geographically. I was a witness to the dawn of a whole new erra. "Space the final fronteer", had its first human
visitors and I was a witness to that.
   With that I often wondered how they did it? How did they know when to fire the engines, at what place and for
what amount of time? All of this was something that escaped my understanding, until Orbiter came along. Orbiter
gave me access. Orbiter has helped me not only to understand, orbits, velocity vectors, tangetial velocities and all
that other technical suff. But I have been able to accept the challenge and do it for myself. I have been to the ISS,
docked and returned to the cape. I have been to the moon and back. I have traveled to mars and I have seen for
myself Olympus Mons. I did it! I did what I always wanted to do as a kid. I wanted to understand it, I wanted to
experience the challnege of space flight. Grant it, the simulations in Orbiter don't even come close to challnege of the
real space program. But it takes me a little bit closer than I was. It brings me within the community of those that have
taken the time to understand the awesome challenges of space flight. I have gained an appreciation and a respect
for those that do it in real life. And I have felt hightened greaf when the best of the best lost their lives doing what
they were gifted to do--fly into space.
So to people like Martin and Dan and many others within the Orbiter community I say thank you. Thank you for your
unselfish devotion to Orbiter and the challenges of space travel. This is why I formed NASSAC. NASSAC is for kids. To
bring the expereice to them so that might learn more about the world, the cosmos and themselves.

I am no longer a kid. And I am no expert in the fileds of Science and space. But it is not my ability that drives me, it is
my thirst. I want to understand it more. and I want to share it with all those kids that are out there today who have
these same dreams and desires. I want to use Orbiter to bring them a little bit closer to their dreams. And who
knows what will become of the seed which we plant today. This is why I like Orbiter. To me it is not a game, it is an
experience.

I would like to hear from others what Orbiter means to you? Why do you like Orbiter? Is just a cool game? Or is it
more than that? I would like to hear your story.

John

[StarLost]

While NASSAC and I are near companions in time, I'm still nothing more than a kid (somewhat bigger than I used to be), no
comments from the Doc, please.

My space experiences very much reflect NASSAC's and are explained in the bio in StarLost's Guide to the Vessels of Orbiter.

I do not live in orbit vicariously through Orbiter, just as I don't live vicariously through my son's lives and activities.
For me, Orbiter has been a great tool to reach a select group of young people intent on training for future possibilities.

It is educational, it is frustrating as hell and it is fun.  A simulator, maybe, but it is very much a game (check OED), as
much a game as life is. It has challenges, it has goals, it has self-achievement.

And very much like life, the very best things are free.

[Simonpro]

To me Orbiter is a rather fun game that allows me to relax a little after a hard day. The fact it is actually fairly realistic
helped hook me in though, i guess...

[Atom]

I've always liked realistic games, and I really like FS and space. So Orbiter is the perect choice. I could say alot more,
but I've just woken up and my head is a little empty.

[MadMike2]

I was always interested in Space and in space stories from when I was a kid ( 50years ago ) My older brother used to
have a comic called "Eagle" and there was a strip in it called Dan Dare a futuristic pace pilot in days when space flight
of any kind was just a dream, I was always getting in trouble with him for ripping out the pages to paste in my scrap
book,  I continued by reading all the sience fiction books I could get hold of, and still do, although my interest in books
now has shifted a little to the Terry Pratchet disc world seiries.
Outer space always fasinated me because it was so large ( still is really, the farther out you go you are still nowhere )
As for the computer side of things, I started out with the Elite on a BBC Computer and later with an Atari, just line
drawings and almpst no color involved,
Then with the PC I found Homeworld ( great graphics ) but realy unplayable, never got anywere then Frontier, this
one was good because it gave you freedom to go in any direction you liked and the graphics were not so bad,
eaven after solving all the problems and arriving at games end you could still play along trader or outlaw !!
I tried them all, do something, save the game and then try again with a different approch,
last year I bought a French Computer Mag "UTILITAIRES PRO" and while looking through the disc came across
ORBITER, I down loaded it just out of curiosity, and have been hooked ever since, its realy great, not a game but as
close to real space flight as I will ever get, I down loaded every thing I could find, spent hours on end running
through the sites picking up tips and idears from people like Dan,Travis,Doc, and all the rest of you guys out there
I bought Visuel C++ 6, 3ds, downloaded Anim8or and all the other mesh utilitys and started to experiment, and now
there are not enough hours in the day, I used to scout through all the sites to see what you guys were talking about
and found the fourm on dans site, Now it is the main place I go, when the Solar Nation Thread started I jumped
straight in and joined in, great idear, good fun, and the guys can be realy funny at times, I see now eaven more
people have found this thread and are joining in, at the rate this thread/idear is expanding it will end up being a
major attraction, with Orbiter just becoming the highway, if in the future we can have a online Solar Nations with one
central solar system with every ones bases and ships in it, then there will be something to be proud about, I now it
will be difficult because of the vast distances involved, but in real life the same problems would be there anyway
The biggest problem would be time aceleration, this would need to switched off online otherwise everyone would be
playing a different game again, no good me setting up a flight to the moon if the local lord time warps the moon
several days into the future during my flight !!

Anyway I think Orbiter is the beast thing since sliced bread and we all owe people like Martin, Doc,Dan and so forth a
big vote of thanks for hous of enjoyment and learning the simulation has and will continue to give to thousands of
people for many years to come,  It will become a great classic !!

rgds
MadMike

[NASSAC]

Thanks MadMike for your story, I found it very intresting and enjoyable to read. And to Atom and others I agree for
those who are looking for a realistic game, Orbiter is quite a challenge.

John from NASSAC

[freespace2dotcom]

hehe.

If you want to know my story, I'll first have to explain that I really didn'ty know squat about computers until my
mother got one which for all intents and puposes became mine.

afterwards I just became a game nut. (still am in fact. I hope to be able to play kotor2: the sith lords tommorow)

anyway, I'm always up for a good challenge/good gameplay, so when I was hunting down stuff at HOTU, I happened
to stumble across a link to orbiter, which really sparked my interest in space flight, (from before, I was a regualr flight
sim fanatic, which itself started when I played this old dos sim on my grandfather's 50mhz speed demon.

Shortly after trying to create a solar system, I posted a questionon this forum (completely bypassing the main one, as
I really didn't like the format) and boom! I became a regular. (which I never would have guessed at the time)

[NASSAC]

Thanks for your story, freespace2dotcom. Since you started messing with orbiter has your interest in the space
program grown at all? What is it about Orbiter that you like the most?

John of NASSAC

[Krytom]

freespace2dotcom wrote:
hehe.

I hope to be able to play kotor2: the sith lords tommorow

TOMORROW!!!!!!!!8o8o8o8o8o (Well, it's today now)

That's not fair!!!!

Back on topic:

Atom was the one to discover Orbiter. He found it in school ages ago and it was exactly the sort of thing we'd been
looking for. I got my dad to download it from work and bring it home. It was amazing and cool, even better when the
new 031105 Orbiter came out, shortly followed by the patch. For a long while Atom and I shared the username of
Krytom, but then Atom became Atom and I was left with Krytom. We are just advanced newbies.

[RiconSpace]

Folks

Orbiter simply makes us, all who use it and learn the basic principles of space flight, astronaut pilots.  This is one of THE
BEST flight simulators available to users.  As for myself, a real pilot, I spend at least 3 hours a week reinvigorating my
enthusiasm for making myself the best Orbiter Pilot while creating mental scenarios and executing them.  On top of the
Orbiter base, DGIII give me the most flexibility when I want to get LOST in SPACE.    NUFF SAID.  

Happy orbiting.

[Wilko]

I think after my utter disappointment many years ago, finding out that MS Space Simulator was no longer in
production, Orbiter came as an absolute blessing. I didn't find it, a friend did, but I must say I'm far more advanced at
space piloting than he is now I guess I like it because flying in MSFS around the world got boring after a while, and
the thrill of space flight took over me. Admittedly, I gave up on it at first! Was way too hard. But on my second try (a
few weeks after) I finally was able to reach orbit, barely. Then it had me hooked. Every step is a challenge, a
worthwhile challenge. Another reason I like it is because of the realism: It doesn't sugar coat the physics involved, or
the manouvers that need to be performed. And now with the DG III, an ever greater realism is achieved. The only
thing I feel missing from Orbiter is complex system managements and living crew in all ships. Most ships it is a simple
matter of pressing a button and up you go. That's probably why I like the other Shuttle simulator out there, its
complicated as hell so its so satisfying when you finally get it to go up!

Enough of my rambling.

[NASSAC]

I agree with you Wiko, that the complexity is very attractive. With the complexity the use of a real checklist becomes
essential for a safe flight. I also agree that Dan's DGIII sets the standard for all Orbiter ships. The Mercury Project 5.0
has great pannels that require lots of switches to be thrown, lights, warning bells, and gauges to be checked. It also
includes the actual checklist from the Mercury program. I have only looked at this briefly and I have flown the
Redstone and the Atlas into space. I am not sure if some of  the switches however are more than cosmetic. In other
words I don't know if I forget turn on the fan for the space suit, that it affect the flight status at all like Dan's
program. If it does not I do think that things like this are in the offerings for future releases.

John of NASSAC

[DocHoliday]

Okay, my story

It actually started ages ago, with an ASCII game called Apollo Mission Simulator (I'll post a link if I can find it). It was
crude, with 1 update/second, but I got so into it, I was probably the ONLY 7th grader to understand the mechanics of
plane change manuvers in my country!

Anyway, Windows came and I waited patiently for a continuation of that program, but it never came. I had visions of
a windows-based space sim and I then eventually came across Virgin's Space Shuttle Sim. Which was very nice, but
you were quite limited in what you could do and nothing ever went wrong.

Then for a few years nothing happened. So I started looking again. By that time even MSSS was old news and I was
hoping to grab it at underdogs.. But MS wouldn't be M$ if it made its SS public domain All the while, this Orbiter
thing kept popping up here and there.. And I was like.. Okay, sounds like another shuttle sim, but I want something
to let me fly around the whole solar system, like Frontier but more realistic and peaceful Orbiter kept popping, so I
gave in.. Free, huh? Well then it's probably ****.. I went to the site and it blew me away... Been a believer ever
since

What I like about it?
- Physics. Physics was always my favourite subject, but since I'm not very accurate when it comes to calculus, a
simulator is a REQUIREMENT for me.. so I can learn by trial and error, since I usually can't get it right mathematically
- The graphics - no comment necessary eh?
- The addons - or rather the possibility to create addons. I quickly get overwhelmed when there are too many
addons, because I want to have them all, but have no time to enjoy them, so I end up with a shallow appreciation or
try to select the best few.. But I love the fact, you have the OPTION to expand the core of the program! My favourite
addon in Orbiter is definitelly the DGIII!
- The learning. I believe firmly that a brain must constantly be stimulated. You don't use it, you lose it.. Months ago, I
spent all my work lunches sitting in a pub, planning out missions and later the sound adventure. I'm currently in an
off phase, but I'm feeling the urge to carry on the work again.
- the community. From Martin, to Dan, to some other developers, these are remarkable individuals you can learn from
both in terms of space flight, gaming as well as important lessons in how to be a generous and productive member of
the world.. I have the honor to know Dan and a few others (I dared to actually contact!) more than by mere
exchange on the forums and I have never been more impressed by any group of individuals than these and their
initial response to my rather clumsy emails
- the hope Orbiter and its community give me.. For a better world, more understanding (bypassing cultural and
national differences) and joint peaceful exploration of space when it eventually starts with full force.

That's what I get from Orbiter.

[NASSAC]

Thanks Doc, I really enjoyed your post. I am going to take all of the post on the this thread and compile them and
use them to prompt others into trying Orbiter and/or help guys like me to use Orbiter as an educational tool for kids.
I personally have learned a lot about the physics of space flight since I started using Orbiter. I talked with a very
heady math teacher about Orbiter yesterday and he is going to help me design a ciriculum for Orbiter that teachers
can use with Orbiter. One idea is to let the kids calculate the best time and angel for launch to intercept the ISS and
then let them do it. The team that gets the closest RINC gets the prize. If anybody would like to offer up other
suggestions on how orbiter could be used to teach math, geometry, physics and more feel free to list your ideas here
as well. But be sure to also answer the question, Why do you like Orbiter as well.

John of NASSAC

[DocHoliday]

hhehe, that sounds like a direct ascent to me

try showing them this: I'm not much of a scientist, but I'm known to get my point across in simple terms, plus there is
some sound to go with it. I wouldn't mind some feedback as well. I admit, I didn't test it with the latest DGIII, but it
does work in Orbiter 2005

http://orbiter.vidmar.org/direct-ascent.php

While I was making this addon I just did it by trial and error, so I guess using math, this could be optimised further.

I don't know what class this kids are in, so I can't really say what would be appropriate. I guess for for lower classes,
you could use Orbiter to show them the laws of gravity and aerodynamics, for higher classes, you can demonstrate
the effects of friction (reentry), pressure (try landing on Venus) and Kepler's laws like energy conservation (speed vs.
altitude) you could simulate Huygens for the really keen. Saturn V liftoff is always an impressive sight. Then there is
fun stuff like getting a vessel from one docking port of ISS to another.. or maybe to explore how a docked stack of
vessels behaves when you apply thrust, to study vectors, angular motion, action-reaction principle and the like...

[Atom]

I learnt almost everything I know about the theory of space travel from trial and error in Orbiter, the manual and you guys.
I had one science lessons on orbits that was just reinforcing what I knew already. For example when I first got Orbiter I had
no knowledge of orbits and attempted to get to the moon several times by pointing the ship at it and lighting the engines,
didn't work obviously.

[Cracker]

In 1960 (! I know !) I was in 2nd grade, a space freak, so I wrote Dr. Werner Von Braun a letter explaining
that I wanted to be an astronaut. To my surprise, he wrote me back, and on the left margin of the
handwritten letter he drew a picture of what he called "my moon rocket". It was the SaturnV stack.
The letter is kind of brown now, but surely a piece for the family archives, along with a bible from 1800.
So, in 2003, Dr. Martin Schwieger wrote a long piece of C++, and I became an astronaut.
Then Dan wrote some more C++, and I had a "sports car" for interplanetary trips.
My thanks to these guys.
Out.

[DocHoliday]

8o


You've got guts!!

To write to someone like Von Braun?? At that age???

Would you do us.. humbled pups.. a gigantic honor and possibly risk scanning that letter and show us at least the
Saturn stack??

[Atom]

Please.

[Cracker]

I have been wanting to do just that for quite some time. At present, I am almost 3,000 miles from the "archive", working 6 or
sometimes 7 days a week, from 6:00AM 'til 7:00PM, hiking around 20,000 to 30,000 feet horizontally and a couple of thousand
feet vertically in very extreme terrain, while hammering my hp48gx and carrying 40 to 80 lbs of equipment.
The last time I was home, I only had 18 hours to be with family. I WILL try and find the letter and photograph it on my next
trip home, which could be in the summer or fall. I would love to share this with you guys.
Out

[NASSAC]

Thanks again Doc  for the feed back. I have downloaded the direct ascent program and will have a look at it. As far as
the ages of the kids are concerned I am aiming for ages 12 through 18 with my program.  And To Cracker I know how
you feel about orbiter. I too waited a long time for a simulation that did a good job on the physics of space flight.
Orbiter isn't easy to learn, but those that stick with it reap great rewards.

John of NASSAC

[Stuger]

I've flown flight simulators (WWII and modern fighters mostly) for almost 10 years, and flown gliders for 2 years.
No flight sim so far has been perfect, always something to complain about.

Then just a  month ago I found Orbiter and downloaded it with coupla addons and tutorials... this was completely
new territory for me. I was sucked in so hard I haven't touched any of my other flight simulators after that. Everything
else seemed both boring and artificial. The feeling of power when opening the throttle and pulling up towards free
space, combined with jaw-dropping visuals and really good sounds (and maybe some nice music) is just
overwhelming. I really feel I'm there, and the universe really is huge.

I learned it little by little, first Trevor Johns PB shuttle tutorial from Mars to Phobos and Deimos, then the "checklist" to
ISS , Mir and back, then first attempt to the moon with transfer mfd and i even found the base after overshooting it
about 5 times... the manual landing was really a trick to learn =)

TransX was quite hard for me, because the tutorial didn't have those totally specific step-by-step instructions. I gave
up for a while, and went on practicing fast docking approaches that would give real astronauts heart attacks...

Now I've finally learned TransX (at least some of it) and the workings of the DGIII so now im on a mission to conquer
the solar system: Took off from Earth today, visited Mars, then on to Jupiter and checked out Io, Europa, Gany,
Callisto, Amalthea and Thebe... some really stunning visual scenarios occur when flying there. For example on some
moon's surface, Jupiter constantly stayed just above the horizon, and slowly came visible when the night on jupiter
turned to day. Those scenarios can be just hypnotic... all looking perfectly real.

Orbiter's been the best simulator experience I've had, and all those flight sims and space combat "sims" just feel
boring after that.

[NASSAC]

Hello Stuger,

I enjoyed your post on Orbiter. It amazes me how each store has it's own unique love for flight. I agree with you that
the challenge of Orbiter far surpasses any other flightsim experience. I think that Orbiter fans are in league of there
own when it comes to over taking the learning curve. But once you make orbit, achieve your first docking or trans
injection, there is no going back to a simple rotation and runway landing.

John of NASSAC

[Herald]

A: I played flight simulators several years ago on my old 486. Then I was modeller of funny flying models.
B: I am an astronomer-amateur.
A + B = Orbiter Space Flight Simulator

[ControlledForce]

I hate to be Captain Pessimist like this but,does anyone else here besides me believe that the moon in Orbiter is a little
too far or too small?Cause when you look at it from Earth's surface there's just something not right about its size.