An idea to enhancing the antenna

[LostOblivion]

Hi,

Firstly, I must say I am really shocked how well your delta gliders have worked out, especially of course, the latest one.
It's really the greatest addon (if not more than that) for Orbiter ever made.

Anyway. I don't know how much work it is, but just got an idea of how to enhance the antenna section. Like it is now, you
don't really get anything in return from tracking a planet or a ship. I thought maybe having this camera or something and
zooming in on earth from jupiter or zooming in on a satellite from ISS or something. The functionality for zooming in on an
object from far away is already there, but not in another picture I imagine. Look below, you get the picture of my idea.
(Literarily. =)) Anyway, being able to give commands to another ship (like the remote control thing) when antenna is locked
on would also be cool. Like the remote control-panel integrated in the ship's panel.

[sirbruce]

Hmm, some combination of camera MFD and telescope MFD... with static on the picture corresponding to signal
strength.

[LostOblivion]

Is it possible at all?

[Tachyon]

I would image very possible - there are already MFD's that do these functions now.. we'd just need a way to get the
output or interface into that area of the lower panel ... that part would be a Dan thing - the others would be
adaptations of the already present add-on's functions.

http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=2645

http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=644

[DanSteph]

"we'd just need"

NEVER assume something is simple in programation unless you know it...
Something that seem simple may take month of work...

Dan



Message modifié ( 17-08-2007 04:07 )

[Tachyon]

Yeah .. see ... "just need" !!      I told you so...  

Dan, so are you saying that it is impossible, can't be done, ever??  (of course not)  Because, I didn't say anything
about the effort needed - just that I was sure that it "could" be done and that two of the three parts appeared to
have already been done by others. (the links)

Now, please don't get defensive - I mean you no harm. I am sure that this is not something that you (or anyone)
could burp out in a days worth of programming. In fact as I was writing that first response I was thinking (to myself
) I'm sure that this would require some degree of a re-write to the main DGIV code which I'm sure is not going to
happen to DGIV - maybe a wish list addition to DGV. After all, you blew our socks off with the awesome stuff you
added to DGIV. It was only meant to possibly start the creative juices flowing ... anyone juicy yet?  (that sounded
wrong )

In much the same way as your efforts with the DGx series were to Orbiter, there are many developers of these MFD's
that could surprise us with a add-on that does exactly what Lost's idea proposes... I give you Spacecraft3.dll as an
example of this creativity.

"Nothing is ever impossible - it may take a bit longer"

[willy88]

But the biggest question is: where's the camera?

[sirbruce]

The camera could be considered part of the antenna array... remember it would only work when the antenna is in LOS
with the object (when it has a signal), so...

Of course, light travel time is considered instantaneous in Orbiter, so there's no delay in watching a ship all the way
out at Jupiter. :P

[picto]

But the biggest question is: where's the camera?

We may think that the antenna is just a sort of "radar"
that build imagery from "echo location" as Sirbruce says.

BTW,I love this idea too !
But as Dan told me  !
Nothing in the Orbiter SDK allows you to make this easy.
It is hard hacking prog.

[DanSteph]

Tachyon wrote:
Yeah .. see ... "just need" !!      I told you so...  

Dan, so are you saying that it is impossible, can't be done, ever??  (of course not)  Because, I didn't say anything
about the effort needed - just that I was sure that it "could" be done and that two of the three parts
appeared to
have already been done by others. (the links)

No offense at all, don't worry

Features really done in an addon depend of somes variables:

-How much fun/usefullness does the feature really add ?
-How long time will it take to code ?
-Does the develloper find it very intteresting to code or just boring ?

So it's all a matter of level of those three variables,
a feature may be minor but short to do and very intteresting to code: Done
Another may be long but add a lot fun but boring to do: Done
Of course one may be minor, very long to code and boring: not done

etc etc...

In this case I estimate the variable potential at:

-How much fun/usefullness does it really add ?= 20%, it's a gadget, peoples will not use it so often+ it's not realist.
-How long time will it take to code ?= 100% very long, I must hack Orbiter because it doesn't allow camera and change a lot of code+disable code already done (make room on panel).
-Does the develloper find it very intteresting to code or just boring ? =  Boring + it would have a great impact on
performance.

Such gadget would be nice I agree, but it doesn't worth in my opinion such efforts and loss of performance on the
lower panel (wich is already the slower one).

Also as you dream it there is some noise and treatment of image to make it look like radar or far object, this would mean full filtering of each image in real time... a call for slideshow and huge dev time.

A "no no" for me.

Dan



Post Edited ( 08-17-07 13:46 )

[Tachyon]

Well .. great points ... see ... that is why I don't code .... I hadn't even thought of the performance hit.

Sometimes ...   "just because you CAN do a thing, does not mean you SHOULD do a thing!"

[LostOblivion]

It's just another idea.

[Daniel76]

 this would be so cool I just used the link that you posted Tachyon and it makes it easier to fly and its cool to look at
the planet while in a cockpit view, off topic I know but does anyone know how not to be draged back into the mars
surface when in a low orbit because i am trying to deploy a satellite and i keep dieing its getting annoying i did it like
3 times already so i dunno

[Tachyon]

Check me if I'm wrong here Sandy ... but make sure you're in a circular orbit before jumping ship ???

{Caddy Shack reference}

[sirbruce]

If you're using the Mars autopilot to take off, make sure you're letting it finish the orbit; don't turn off the autopilot
prematurealy when it shuts down the engines.  You should always watch your orbit in the orbit mfd to make sure
your autopilot leaves you in a good one.

[C3PO]

But LostOblivion has got a point. The antenna doesn't do that much except showing the dir/dist to the target.

I've got two ideas that it could be used for. Both are already implemented in Orbiter, but it would make the antenna
more useful.

It could be a sort of long-range docking HUD. A pointer drawn on the HUD maybe with the distance.
Relative speed is not that important at long range.
Or it could show the direction with two needles on the Flight Data Backup Display (maybe not that useful, but quite
easy to code)

It could also be used to get info on the target. This would require a page on the main fight computer to display the
info. Things like NAV and IDS frequencies, ILS and VOR.

This should be simpler to code then the camera.

[sirbruce]

Speaking of which... I'd really like a way to increase the IDS range to 200km from 100km.  Is there a way to do this?  
Or is this internal to orbiter?  This would allow for easier rendezvous, especially when the relative inclination is high.  
The default sync orbit MFD lets you to be within 1 degree but in many cases that won't get you within 100km.

[C3PO]

sirbruce wrote:
Speaking of which... I'd really like a way to increase the IDS range to 200km from 100km.  Is there a way to do this?  
Or is this internal to orbiter?  This would allow for easier rendezvous, especially when the relative inclination is high.  
The default sync orbit MFD lets you to be within 1 degree but in many cases that won't get you within 100km.

Relative inclination is managed by the AlignMFD, but that's besides the point.

Here's a section of a scenario file defining Mir:

Mir
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS -5760325.89 -205786.54 -3364545.79
  RVEL 3904.388 -407.008 -6654.608
  AROT 0.00 -45.00 90.00
  IDS 0:540 100 1:542 100 2:544 100
  XPDR 482
END

The IDS line shows that all the ports have a range of 100 km. You could change the number to whatever you want.

But you really should be using the XPDR at long ranges.

[BluryBlue]

If Dan got permission by the creaters of the Camera and Telescope MFD then this would be all possible.

[sirbruce]

C3PO wrote:
Relative inclination is managed by the AlignMFD, but that's besides the point.

It is, and I don't know why you brought it up.  AlignMFD will (generally) let you get to 0 degrees if you like.  I was
referring to the RInc warning in SyncMFD, which basically recommends not attempting a rendezvous with more than 1
degree inclination.  My point was that even if SyncMFD has you intersecting at 0, if your RInc is, say, 0.75 degrees,
which is otherwise within the "recommended limit", you can still be so far away that you'll never pass within 100km.

The IDS line shows that all the ports have a range of 100 km. You could change the number to whatever you want.

That was the first thing I tried, but it didn't work.

But you really should be using the XPDR at long ranges.

Don't really understand this joke.

[C3PO]

OK, my bad. I thought that you had misunderstood SyncMFD. If you align planes perfectly this problem goes away.

The range parameter is indeed not working. Something has changed. I haven't tried this for several years. It stays at
100 km.

The XPDR is no joke. Just tune your COM to the XPDR frequency. You can find the correct one by pressing [Ctrl+I] and
it has a range of 1000 km. It works the same way as IDS except for the docking squares on the HUD.

If everything else fails you can always press the TGT button on the DockMFD and select your target directly.

[sirbruce]

C3PO wrote:
OK, my bad. I thought that you had misunderstood SyncMFD. If you align planes perfectly this problem goes away.

Yes, this is true, but it's not always possible on the first pass!  I'm basically just looking for a way to activate autodock
from further out.

The range parameter is indeed not working. Something has changed. I haven't tried this for several years. It stays at
100 km.

Now that the orbiter forums are back up perhaps this can be filed as a bug.

The XPDR is no joke. Just tune your COM to the XPDR frequency. You can find the correct one by pressing [Ctrl+I] and
it has a range of 1000 km. It works the same way as IDS except for the docking squares on the HUD.

Ahhh, I didn't realize the docking HUD would provide this.  Thanks!  It certainly helps as I can start the docking
manually.... but I assume the autodock still won't work until you're in IDS range?

[C3PO]

Ah! I see. You want to use the autodock. I suggest you practise rendezvous to get closer to the target.

There is a MFD that does that automaticly.
http://orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=1199

But that doesn't start to work until you're 600 km from target. Not really useful if you're in a DGIV.

You could use TransX, but you really need to know what you're doing. (And I'm not suggesting you don't)

I guess autodock doesn't work outside IDS range, but I think you probably ought to be in visual range before
engaging it. Otherwise you might crash into the target.

[sirbruce]

Again, practicing rendezvous isn't really the issue.  It's the "sometimes I launch into orbit and I could dock with my
target except I don't have time to get my RInc within half a degree and so I only pass within 300km or so of my target
and if only autodock worked out to here I could dock easily."  But yeah, now knowing I can use the XPDR out to
1000km that helps; I can manually do the first part until I'm in IDS range.  Still would rather make IDS range bigger,
though.

I appreciate your help but I'm a bit tired of the "do it the way I do it" approach.  I just want the IDS range to be
larger.

[C3PO]

sirbruce wrote:
I appreciate your help but I'm a bit tired of the "do it the way I do it" approach.  I just want the IDS range
to be larger.

I can't help you with that. Sorry.