Life Support.... Help Please.

[PhilM]

A DGIII newbe here.

The Manual doesn't give enough detail about it.

How do you use Fan Filter...etc?

What does the locked setting mean?

Cabin air Recycling....How does Main and Backup relate to each other?

How do you use the Auto mode setting?

What's an EXT Radiator?

When does one need to turn off Auto and go manual, if ever.?

Is there a LS tutorial someplace?

I haven't heard any breathing yet?

Cheers all



Post Edited ( 06-18-05 10:54 )

[Atom]

If you ask nicely we might tell you.

[StarLost]

Yes. Politeness and consideration go a long way.

A DG3 manual has not yet materialized. There are sufficient changes that the DG2 manual often doesn't help. Consider it as
the nature of a puzzle. It will exercise the brain.

To help it along, here is a bit of help.

The EXT radiator (external radiator). Think of the space shuttles after they achieve orbit and the cargo bay doors are
opened. What are the form fitting panels just inside of the bay doors? What is their function?

[PhilM]

Well StarLost,......I'm just a fly boy. I know next to nothing about Space craft construction.
A radiator will have something to do with Heating or cooling I guess.

I'll need more clues on that one.

I suppose my big question is.....Does the Life Support system require much attention from
me, or is it pretty much, stick it on auto and forget about it.



Post Edited ( 06-18-05 12:42 )

[McBrain]

With the radiators you nearly got it.
Think of the vacuum in space so the spacecraft gets the full sun radiation without having filtered it by the air.
About the life support system, just try it.

[StarLost]

PhilM, I know where you're at.  To explain where you might have been considered "rude", reread the last line of your first
posting as if you had received it from someone you hardly knew and they were asking you a favour.

'Nuff said.

The EXT radiator, works just like the space shuttle. I think McBrain might have confused the issue a little bit, the
radiators on the shuttle are to radiate heat out of the shuttle not to absorb it into the shuttle. One of the main problems
with modern spacecraft is the elimination of waste heat that builds up inside of them (heat from electronic sources, human
bodies, etc). On earth, most waste heat is removed by convection (heat transfer to air). In space, vacuum (low pressure
environment) does not absorb much heat. The space shuttle removes its waste heat to space by means of very large radiator
vanes that are mounted inside the cargo bay doors. They do not work very efficiently, hence their large size. Even if you use
some method of refrigeration, you still need some sort of heat exchanger for it to work. Same problem, same solution.

The trial and error part for you. Run the DG3 without the EXT radiator extended. Look at the power usage numbers and the
temperature buildup. Extend the radiator and see what happens (sometimes this takes a bit of time).  

Just about every system on the craft is like that.  Sometimes the learning curve is enormous. Must you pay attention to life
support? Hmmm ... pop the canopy and find out. It depends a lot on the flight you have planned.  If you plan on going to
Jupiter and you only have four days supply of life system resources, don't plan on making it with a live crew (better to have
the chicken box clicked on, you will find this in your DG configuration settings).

As for being a flyboy ...  orbital flight is just a leetle bit more altitude flight ... and a whole lot more physics and
orbital mechanics.  Same principles. Thrust, drag, yaw, pitch, etc.

In the real world, I never flew the birds. I just kept 'em flying. Learned to hate what flyboys did to my sweethearts, too
(and I'm not talking about the two legged two-   kind, either).

[McBrain]

StarLost wrote:
I think McBrain might have confused the issue a little bit, the radiators on the shuttle are to radiate heat out of the
shuttle not to absorb it into the shuttle.

Yeah, that's right. Sorry for that.

[StarLost]

McBrain wrote:


Yeah, that's right. Sorry for that.

Ah ... it was a minor thing.  You know, though, that I do walk on water ...



... in the middle of a good northern winter, of course.  



If you only knew how many mistakes I make.  And always a handy feminine type person to remind me of them, too.

[PhilM]

Well thanks folks.

"As for being a flyboy ... orbital flight is just a leetle bit more altitude flight ... and a whole lot more physics and
orbital mechanics. Same principles. Thrust, drag, yaw, pitch, etc."

I bought MS Space Sim off the store shelf. So I've been in space a bit.
That program came with great PDF files on Space Mechanics.
Heaps of great Maths if one had the time and inclination.

"In space, vacuum (low pressure environment) does not absorb much heat. "

ARR RIGHT!!!!!!....the things one doesn't think of.
So, if things get hot, extend radiator. I've been running without, so I'll wait
and see what happen.

OK....so I've just put myself in Orbit around the earth.
0.006 ecc, I'll try and nail the 0.0000!!!
Do I now turn off some recycling buttons as both A & B systems are running.

I just plan to obit around the Earth, Moon and Mars for a while.
Try a few cbital manouvers and landings.
Then try an Earth to Moon and back mission and Earth Mars mission.



Post Edited ( 06-20-05 10:21 )

[Cindy]

One of the things I love about this thing is that the people doing it are a definite cut above.  Their is no such thing as
a stupid question........The questions most people have, are stated well,  and their is not alot of vulgarity to read
thru, and filter mentally.  I used to work in flight test, so I am far from having "dainty" ears, but it does lower the bar,
and adds nothing at all to the communication.  

Something to keep in mind with this entire project is that its open source, and not COTS, so documentation, software,
bug fix's etc are done out of the kindness and cooperation of the community. Its easy sometimes to forget that fact,
with the ellegance of the code.  Part of the enjoyment with this is finding out what things do (see my other post
about my asphyxiating my entire crew on Mars!  :-p  ) This really is the thinking persons simulation! If you don't think
and forget your physics and orbital mechanics, you are pretty much a goner!  Again part of the fun!

As to the radiators, one of the first things that they do with the STS once they get on orbit is to open the radiators
and start dissipating heat from the avionics, and the other systems. Earlier craft used liquid cooling, and used a very
slow roll around the axis to uniformly heat/dissipate heat as necessary, the STS does not need to perform
this "barbeque" roll becuase of the radiators.  Wow this is fun!!

[PhilM]

Thanks Cindy

I have been Orbiting Mars for a few days now.
I have not opened the radiators yet, (just want to see what happens ),
but the Temp has remained much the same.
Did get a low rcs fuel warning, ( due to all my practice manouvers),
had to transfer over from the main tank.

My very first fuel operation in Orbiter......Yes, this is fun!!

[La brique volante]

PhilM wrote:
I have not opened the radiators yet, (just want to see what happens ),
but the Temp has remained much the same.

The radiator is not use to control temperature. If you deploy it, you will see in the upper panel on the right that your
consumption of electricity will decrease. Radiator is usefull when you generate electricity with the fuel cells. Fuel cells
are not infinites, so radiator is usefull in this case.
But when you use APU and generators, you can deploy it, it's beautiful!

[PhilM]

La brique volante wrote:
The radiator is not use to control temperature.

Oh!........I thought I have been told by the pepole above that it "does" control heat.?

So the radiator generates electricity. How does it do this?

Does DGIII model fuel cell usage?
So what are fuel cells, do they have anything to do with engine fuel?

[StarLost]

Well, we did get off on a tangent ... a bit ... again, and mixed what the real life radiators do with the DG3 ones. La Brique
is right though, it is mostly power consumption on the DG3 (though I could swear on one flight that there was also an affect
on temperature).

The fuel cells ... do you need an explanation of what it is in real life or just the DG3? In real life, a fuel cell is a
device for creating electrical power by combining oxygen and hydrogen (the fuel part). An additional byproduct is water. The
real shuttles use them. The   DG3 uses them in this way. And no, they have should have nothing to do with engine fuel (unless
Dan forgot to use a separate resource for the fuel cells and in fact the fuel cells deplete engine fuel. I don't think they
do, though).

Cindy ... kind words. While not all are a cut above, at least here some sense of civility and sophistication seem evident. To
me it is a mark of a person that they can insult and apply invective intelligently, without resorting to the lowest common
denominator. Like the sage said: "Either leave them laughing, or leave them wondering what the hell you said."

[generaltak]

The radiator doesn't really generate electricity: it just "radiates" waste heat from the other processes on the DG. This
means that less energy is used pumping around a bunch of coolant. It does look kindof like a solar panel, though eh?

[PhilM]

Thanx folks......

anyhow, was a big reduction in power use after deployment!
78A down to 59A.