Windows of Opportunity!?

[AphelionHellion]

Freespace and Doc: Well, I was being just plain silly with those "translations" - I need to make a note not to post
anything after 3am

Anyway I think we're more or less in agreement that we've got a good MFD in TransX, but one with a somewhat
inscrutable interface. One thing I've been wondering (perhaps you know something about this, Doc) - is it possible to
have one MFD feed the other MFD information?
I was thinking that if you had an input MFD and an output MFD (for something like transX) that might make it much
easier to deal with your different stages and modes. So in your input MFD, for instance, you'd tell it to use, say,
injection mode, using X deltaV and Y ejection point and the results of all that stuff would be displayed in the other
MFD. That way the (output) orbit display would be easily visible without a bunch of text over it and you'd have room
for a much more verbose interface for input on the other MFD.

If not, one thing I've been wanting to see is a relatively simple little MFD that can display text files? Perhaps I'm just
lazy 'cuz I don't have a printer, but if it was possible to just put together your own abbreviated version of a tutorial for
any MFD or procedure and view it in an MFD, that'd be amazingly convenient, I'd think.
I've sorta wandered away from it, but I was doing something similar using Dan's checklist display on the DGIII. This
is something I enjoy doing, because I've always been a wannabe writer and webpage designer, so text is my forte
Turns out that it's a bit tricky, though, because there's no word wrap (and of course no sideways scrolling) so
you need to tweak each line and move your line breaks accordingly to make sure each line doesn't have too many
characters (and wind up off the display). It seems to use a variable-width font, too, (looks like Arial or something) so
while it looks nice and clean, it makes it that much more difficult to format your checklists, as the number of max
characters per line depends on WHAT those characters ARE.

It's certainly doable, but it precludes the possibility of just simply pasting in whichever text file you want to use. Even
using some sort of auto format, you'd need to set it rather conservatively as there's no definite character limit per line.
It'd need to be set for the widest potential characters.

[AphelionHellion]

reekcha: How'd you piss Mr. B off? Inquiring minds want to know

[reekchaa]

oh dear... Okay... I'll spill it.  

I challenged him on each of his Nationalistic Reich-Wing Christian USA Praising Pro-War Agendas.  ..or something.
I got him to personally attack me dozens of times:rant:, and to accept the engraciating love of his brotheren.  

[DocHoliday]

Well the TransX does share information like that, but not in the way that it would split the input interface from the
output. What you can do for example, which I find a big step forward in usefulness is when you set up your burn say
from the earth to the moon on one screen you have the settings for the burn, with Earth and your orbit and on the
other screen you can have the next stage displayed, when you will actually be passing the moon and as you change
the parameters for the burn, the second screen updates to show you, how your encounter with the moon will change
as a result. Probably some other MFDs can share info like that too. I guess it's a matter of the infamous Dan's STATIC
variables

It's not what you had in mind, but I think that having a separate input panel would be a sort of a waste of MFD
working space. But, true, the graphics display would be less cluttered.

Hey Reekchaa, any special benefit, getting Mr. Batman pissed off at you? Or do you do it as a matter of principle,
when anyone discusses the topic you mentioned?

[AphelionHellion]

reekcha: Why do I get the impression you threw the first punch?     It's just that I've never seen him discuss politics.
Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

Besides, I see nothing wrong with an "agenda" praising the United States (what do you call our Independence Day
celebrations here, anyway)?

I know the moderators will tell me it's horrible form for me to suggest this, but it seems to me that the Orbiter forums
are a very diverse mix of political viewpoints based on the interest we share, and if you were to try and put together
some sort of political debate forum, this would be a great place to start.

For instance, we have quite an age range, as well as a fairly well-distributed geographic sample of members. Also it
occurs to me that that if you're an Orbiter geek you're probably the sort who values education, but because of its
mathematic/scientific flavor, most here are most likely not of the touchy/feely Liberal Arts/Philosophy Major bent  
(And if you are, you're at least some sort of geek in addition to that.)
//computer nerd, with plans to learn summa dat 'rithmatic

The only thing we don't seem to have is anything approaching a representative number of women And the
reason for that is still a mystery to me. You don't have to be a feminist to realize that women are at least as inherently
skilled as men when it comes to pilotage and science. Hmmm...
I just hope it wasn't socially inept guys like me (who dig girls who are into scholarly and scientific stuff) who scared 'em
all away

[freespace2dotcom]

hehe. I was just thinking of what the british might have thought of the american independence day, but I won't share
it.... But quite frankly. I hate math. In fact. I should be doing my homework on logarithms, but I'm lazy, so I'm not.
I'm more of a trial and error type guy who just likes flight simulators. since buying MS flight sim 2004 takes money
(which I don't have) I was stumbling on the home of the underdogs, searching for free slight sim, when I stumbled
upon orbiter. Yes I'm a nerd who likes computers, but in my case it's largely a fluke. I only know one space travel
formula, and that's only what I use to figure out what speed I need to get to mars or wherever. The rest I just wing
it. just like NASA..doesn't.

and about girls, well, I think it's my personality that scares them away. I've made comments on that before.

[AphelionHellion]

Freespace: You're sounding more and more like my long lost brother every day
I suck at math with a capital UCK. I'm not suited for it at all. I'm fascinated with science but I'd make a horrible
scientist. I like flight sims, but I normally enjoy flying "seat of the pants." I don't have enough patience for my own
good.
Still, the interest in this sort of thing, which has obviously got real learning curve, strives for substance over style,
and involves at least the basic understanding of physics - well that qualifies that person as a geek in my book (in a
good way)

As for your personality, bah! Scares them away hell! No, they run away and find some immature dumbass they can
actually manipulate, is my guess.  //in a pessimistic mood today

Seriously if you're anything like me it's most likely a problem of confidence and terminal shyness. Of course, if they
don't like Orbiter, why even bother with 'em?   Hehe

[AphelionHellion]

Oh, and as for H.O.T.U. - it, to use a colloquialism, "R0x0rz my S0x0rz!"
That's where I came across Orbiter, too. I need to remember to write in and thank 'em for that one

[AphelionHellion]

*ROFL* Hey freespace, you'd better take a look at Dan's latest post! How dare he... He's warezin' your intellectual
propertay!  

[freespace2dotcom]

AphelionHellion wrote:
*ROFL* Hey freespace, you'd better take a look at Dan's latest post! How dare he... He's warezin' your intellectual
propertay!  

way ahead of you.



Post Edited ( 06-09-04 12:20 )

[AphelionHellion]

*lmao* Nice one, free

[freespace2dotcom]

Nobody can compete with the king of sarcasm.

[AphelionHellion]

Hehehe!
"Hail to the king, baby!"

//heading off to bed, finally

[freespace2dotcom]

thanks, aphelion!

//heading off to school, finally

[DocHoliday]

Alright. A promise is a promise.

Try this out for size. I also found that Excel sheet to calculate the launch windows to Mars but it's not working right,
at least doesn't agree with the calculations in this PDF, so I'll have to check out the problem.

Meanwhile here is the .pdf that tells you in how much time it takes for two planets to get into the same relative
position. Like closest, farthers appart and also hehe for Hohmann transfers. Same number.

http://orbiter.vidmar.org/ConjunctionRates.php

For the transfer though you also need to have a reference point when the planets are either in a correct position for
it and then just add the time from the table to get to your desired launch date. But only if your reference points is
good for a hochmann launch, otherwise you'd need to adjust it first, which is what my excel table SHOULD do, but
doesn't yet..

Anyway, have fun!

[freespace2dotcom]

That's nice doc, but you still need to know when one of the windows are in order to make use of that!

That's still handy though.. But I still think I'm gonna use my little list.

Oh my gosh! I just realized! My little list should work with that! COOL!

Of course, my list is only for going to a planet from earth, but I'm going to bet that that's gonna be the majority of
flight's anyway... I'll get to working on solid flight dates for going to all the planets from all the planets!

[DocHoliday]

Well, for Mars, you do have one reference date already in the file. I think it was March 10, 2001, then you just add a
few revolutions to that date and you should get a more current launch window. Although this math actually differs
from the one I gave you earlier on that Mars Academy link.

Cheers,

[RJGrandia]

TransX and launch windows:

is it possible to figure out a launch window (to Mars, or anywhere else except the Moon) using TransX? In TransX,
once you've set your approximate prograde Delta-V, you can fiddle with the launch date to get a good position match
at the other end. The problem I'm having with TransX here is that it takes into account your current position in LEO,
so if you start playing around with your maneuver MJD in "Coarse" or "Medium" setting , your Hohmann Transfer Orbit
whirls around like a mad dervish. The old TransMFD only looked at the transfer orbit and indicated your current eject
vector with a little green line that you could adjust separately.
I've taken to using TransMFD to find a good launch window, then fast-forwarding the MJD in TransX (or, if that takes
to long, editing the date in the .scn or quicksave).

Any suggestions?

[DocHoliday]

Well, I sorta gave up on TransX. I have the same problem and can't figure it out. The documentation is not clear to
me.. Anyway, obviously TransX moves you around Earth and what you want is to move the EARTH around the sun, to
see how this affects the encounter distance right? I think there is another perimeter you can adjust. Can't remember
atm, but isn't it something like Longitude of Periapsis or something similar.. This is where you set where on Earth's
orbit you wish to eject.. Of course than you have to adjust the launch MJD too.. And then adjust the DeltaV.. and of
course then back again to that latitude setting neverending circle

I started using InterplanetaryMFD now. It's a lot simpler and get the job done too. Better documentation too.

[RJGrandia]

I'll have a look at the Advanced options in TransX. I haven't totally given up on it, since I've used it to good effect on
Apollo lunar missions.
OTOH, I've taken a look at the IMFD-manual and it definitely looks as if it's more flexible than TransX (examples: being
able to set up an Apollo-style free-return trajectory right there in the planning stage). Also, I'm impressed by the Io-
to-Europa tutorial. That's a fairly complicated series of maneuvers deep in Jupiter's gravity well, which I'd be reluctant
to tackle in TransX. Doesn't Jarmo know, BTW,  that it's no use flying to Europa, since the Monolith/Bowman/HAL won't
allow you to land? ...  

[DocHoliday]

I haven't checked out the Jupiter scenarios. Jupiter system is something I've completely been avoiding so far. Until I
get my bearings fully in the local neighbourhood of Earth that is -Moon/Mars/Venus.

[McBrain]

Is the IMFD the Interplanetary MFD?

Where can I get it?

[McBrain]

Don't mind, found it at OrbitHangar

[AphelionHellion]

Yeah I'm still trying to figure out some of the more advanced iMFD features, but the map screen ALONE is worth
spending all day downloading this thing (It won't take you anywhere near that long unless you have a 1200 baud
modem, I'm just saying, awesome add-on)

I like the orbital operations MFD too - circulate (I'm assuming that means "circularize") and plane change. For one thing
they can be used at various stages of the orbit, not just at Ap/Pe or AN/DN. Also with that little crosshair
indicator, it's totally visual. Great for us video game freaks
Just used iMFD a few minutes ago to perfectly align with the Ecliptic (something you can't do with the standard align
plane MFD, far as I can tell) AND get an eccentricity of 0.0000
Aerobrake MFD is cool too, although I wish you didn't have to manually enter the atmospheric properties. They're in
the "Object Info" list for each planet, but it'd be great if the MFD itself could read 'em.
Aha, I just HAD to nitpick!

*evil*
Muhahahaha!

[freespace2dotcom]

ehh.. I still haven't screwed with it. I'm still using that good 'ol transfer mfd. *sigh*