The Grand Multilingual Experiment topic

[DocHoliday]

I got tempted (by Dan) to open up this "Grand multilingual experiment" topic.

The rule is to talk in your own language, get replies in other languages.. and have a debate if you can. I hesitate to
speak in Slovene here as only people like Gl0balist, Foxboy, Orin and Stinger might understand some of it.

It seems kind of futile, appart from English, German, French and Spanish (oh and quite possibly Dutch!) all the rest would not be understood. Unless
we'd be willing to translate as we go, and all learn a bit more about languages, but that's a whole different deal then.

but we could try... I wish Esperanto hadn't died out. That was a nice grand experiment, but a dead language from the
start.

Does anyone speak Latin on the forum??? Now there's an ex-live language that refuses to die You can reply in your
native and see how it goes



Post Edited ( 04-21-04 15:31 )

[DanSteph]

After babel fish we have now the babel thread

I was always attracted by spanish and latin (more than german
wich I learned at school) and I love to hear portuguese as spoken
by the brasilians, it's so smooth it's a pleasure to hear.
Notice that good german as spoked by my mother (which was german btw)
and the english spoken by britain people sound great and smooth also.
(sorry but the swiss-german is an absolute horror to hear
by latin ear)

Lets' try some "babel thread" things:

"debellare superbos" a latin quote from Vigile that is an absolute beauty

original latin:
Excudent allii spirantia mollius aera (credo equidem),
vivos ducent de marmore vultus, orabunt causas melius,
caelique meatus describent radio et surgentia sidera dicent:
tu regere imperio populos, Romane, memento
(hae tibi erunt artes), pacisque imponere morem,
parcere subiectis et debellare superbos.

translated in english:
Others may fashion more smoothly images of bronze (I for one believe it),
evoke living faces from marble, plead causes better, trace with a wand the
wanderings of the heavens and foretell the rising of stars. But you, Roman,
remember to rule the peoples with power (these will be your arts); impose
the habit of peace, spare the vanquished and war down the proud!
Virgile Aneid VI. 851; quoted in Kipling's "Regulus."

translated in french:
D'autres que toi, peut-être, je le crois volontiers,
sauront mieux donner vie au bronze et tirer du marbre
de vivantes figures ; d'autres sauront mieux plaider,
mieux décrire au compas le mouvement des cieux et la
course des astres. Mais toi, Romain, souviens-toi que tu
es né pour imposer tes lois à l'univers. Ta destinée est
de dicter tes conditions de paix, d'épargner
les vaincus et dompter les superbes
Virgile Aneïde

debellare superbos , "dompter les superbes" quel beauté, quel poésie.

dont know if "war down the proud" (debellare superbos) sound great in
english but in french it's superbe.


Dan



Post Edited ( 04-21-04 16:09 )

[McBrain]

Hallo??

Also, ich versuchs auch mal.
I hab grad meine Downloads zammazähld, von älle meine Sacha wo I up gloaded hab, und I be auf 610 Downloads komma!! 8o

Das war Schwäbisch!
This was swabian!

Verstehts jemand? Vielleicht Dan?

[McBrain]

Try to translate this in babel fish!!!

[DanSteph]

Ich kan verstehen, keine probleme aber ich
kan nicht gut gesprachen

(ich habe 1 Jahr in Deutschland gewohnt (in weinheim) , als ich klein war,
aber ich habe alles zu vergessen )


(using babelfish isn't fair

Dan



Post Edited ( 04-21-04 16:21 )

[Krytom]

Ich habe Babelfish nicht.

Toll! Ich bin einen Instructor Pilot! 8) (about time too)

My audition for the scholarship went reasonably well. Thanks for the brainwave Dan, we'll just have to wait and see if
it worked. (crossed fingers)

Now to test my new quote.

[freespace2dotcom]

1. boku wa baka desu yo.
2. watashi wa wakarunai.

at least babelfish doesn't work with romaji, so it's proof that I know a *little* squeek of japanese.

someday I'll be fluent, I just have to get off my lazy rear.

translation (as far as I know)

1. I'm an idiot
2. I don't understand

I do know most of the cool anime phrases, though that's not necessarily a *good* thing.

[DanSteph]

Most people in the world learn only english as a second language because with that you
can go anywhere.

Everytime I made a trip I was speaking english and I always found people
that spoke it.

happy you, you speak it already and much better than I ever would.
(But I had a strange accent issue when I was in asia; I had more problem to
understand american people than asian people )

Dan



Post Edited ( 04-22-04 01:51 )

[freespace2dotcom]

yeah, yeah, but it's not the *same* you know?

Edit: also, I know that english is spoken everywhere to some extent or another, but I seem to remember that in some places (a few places in france comes to mind) people will just get insulted if you speak english to them and will just walk away.

And what's wrong with wanting to increase one's chances of finding a guide in a few countries here and there..

And the list goes on, studies show that people learning foreign languages have increased their ability to learn quite a bit during the time they study it.

The american government, noticing this, decides to force everybody going to high school to take at least one foreign language class (most of them are spanish because of there being more spanish speakers overall than most others) but as we should all know, you won't learn a language unless you really honestly want to. No matter how hard the teachers try, YOU have to want to learn it, otherwise it's futile. Unfortunately, this attempt by the government backfires to the point that not only do people not learn any new languages, they don't get "smarter" because they don't really study anything, the kids waste time in high school doing nothing productive when they could be doing something else, (it was bad enough before that, too. believe it or not, in my senior year, the administartion at my high school decided that I was to take a CPR class and like it, you wouldn't believe the efforts I took to get out of that, let me tell you.) But the worst part of that venture, is that it scares a lot of people from ever learning a language. It was that experience that more or less made me decide that spanish was going to be a second priority, and since I "discovered" anime in that point of my life, I decided that I was going to try for an ever harder one to learn. Japanese.

Geez, I should have just made a new post, rather than an edit... hehe



Post Edited ( 04-22-04 08:31 )

[DocHoliday]

Freespace: I actually have the same view about american education system, but I'm glad you as a native confirm it.
It's sad to take your language to be global as a fact and expect everyone to speak it. If I were an american I would
learn another language as a matter of principle. Klingon if nothing else. Japanese seems a good choice. I hear it is
gramatically quite straight-forward, but the writing is another matter. I think the simple way to say I don't understand
in Japanese is plain wakarimasen (read that in Shogun, Clavell took time to learn some)

Krytom: congrats on your audition and on your download hits

Now for my babelfish part:

A personal thought in Slovene
"Na svetu je ze dovolj nasilja in nerazumevanja za potrebe drug drugega, da je res zadnja stvar, ki jo potrebujemo,
jezikovna ovira, ki bi onemogocala dialog in napredovanje clovestva kot intelektualne vrste zivih bitij"

Translation to Basic (as they would call English in Star Wars.. or was it Star Trek?)
"There is plenty of violence and lack of appreciation for the needs of others in the world as it is and the last thing we
need are language barriers to obstruct dialogue and the advancement of humanity as an intelectual form of living
creatures."

[freespace2dotcom]

DocHoliday wrote:
Freespace: I actually have the same view about american education system, but I'm glad you as a native confirm it.

Great minds think alike

It's sad to take your language to be global as a fact and expect everyone to speak it.

It's called "ignorance" Even I'm like that in other ways.

If I were an american I would learn another language as a matter of principle. Klingon if nothing else.

Yeah, I read somewhere that some autistic kid would only speak in klingon, so they had to find somebody to
translate. I thought it was the funniest thing since toast.

Japanese seems a good choice. I hear it is gramatically quite straight-forward, but the writing is another matter.

Compared to english's format: subject-verb-object, you have subject-object-verb.
meaning in inglish you'd have "who hit the ball" but in japanese you have "who the ball hit"
It's easy to listen to but I can't say anything right.. the writing is THREE other matters, a huge hurdle I might not
pass.

I think the simple way to say I don't understand in Japanese is plain wakarimasen (read that in Shogun, Clavell took
time to learn some)

I think the "masen" part makes it the opposite of it's original meaning. ie: Not wakari
but that's as far as my intelligence allows.

[DocHoliday]

freespace2dotcom wrote:
It's called "ignorance" Even I'm like that in other ways.

Being aware of your ignorance proves you are not ignorant

I think the "masen" part makes it the opposite of it's original meaning. ie: Not wakari
but that's as far as my intelligence allows.

Ah, so desu ka. That would then mean not understand or don't understand. A rather unsophisticated way of
expressing oneself in Japanese

Ka'apla'H! (success!)

[DanSteph]

freespace2dotcom wrote:
Edit: also, I know that english is spoken everywhere to some extent or another, but I seem to remember that in
some places (a few places in france comes to mind) people will just get insulted if you speak english to them and will
just walk away.

Sorry that's plain wrong, I know that the relation beetween the two country aren't going really well
and that you can hear horrible stories about french people but you know french people aren't
monster they are almost as american, got a house, a car watching tv and they are mostly friendly....
About english, the last mode for english people is to buy a house in france when they get retreated
so you even have some small village where 60% of the population speak english and there is no problem
at all.

You know I traveled a lot around the world and you can hear horrible stories about peoples,
fear, ignorance and common racism propagate them...  What I did find while travelling is that people are
almost the same in every country, french don't have a third eyes, asian people don't eat children etc etc.

And what's wrong with wanting to increase one's chances of finding a guide in a few countries here and there..

Absolutely nothing ? that was one reason that get me learning english instead of retaining the german
lesson I had, now if I go to germany even if my mother was german I'll speak english with people.
(but as anyone should do in any country I will first ask politely in german if they speak english and if not
I will say in german that I'm sorry but I don't speak german...)

but as we should all know, you won't learn a language unless you really honestly want to. No matter how hard the
teachers try, YOU have to want to learn it, otherwise it's futile.

I'm the living example of that, we are all forced to learn german but actually I don't know
one school friend that speak it.

I decided that I was going to try for an ever harder one to learn. Japanese.

geez, good luck it ain't going easy.


Dan

[DocHoliday]

What I did find while travelling is that people are
almost the same in every country, french don't have a third eyes, asian people don't eat children etc etc.

Yep, they do look and feel and act the same on the outside, but the cultures are different, but that's not my point.
Psychologically speaking, humans are social creatures and inquisitive by nature. Now the same drive that we have to
be tourists and visit other parts of the world and their people, the same feeling those people experience, when they
meet you. Of course, as you said, some of them may not like English, but if you both determine that it is the only
common language, you will speak it, because you want to communicate.. it's still better than signs alone. All the rest
is fear or projection or worse...

There are of course exceptions:
- If you're talking to a person from say one of the arabic countries currently under US's target scope, they will not
appreciate you using a heavy american accent, but I bet my hand they WILL still talk to you. Unless they decide you
are American and follow the religious dogma being promoted by some leaders, that all americans should be killed on
site. That would be fear dominating them and I very much doubt it would happen
- As for French. They are a proud people and I am pretty sure the intelligent ones make it a point to speak good
English, just so they can tell you off in your own languange (in case you are american) that say.. Freedom Fries was a
childish notion.. for example A lot better than just bitching about and threatening a poor fellow who has no idea
what you're pissed off about and instead thinks the French are pathetic, arrogant and evil
- The rest.. Well, I do have to admit, that if I hear english speakers in a bar or something, I do get a feeling of
resentment but not for the people in question, they just associate me to all this mess in the world... The people who
are in the bar are by definition less ignorant or are at least working on it, simpy because they chose to visit my
country so why bother them?

You take people who grumble about foreigners in their presence... Fear and insecurity, but lack of balls and
intelligence to bring it out into the open. And the keeping of one's dignity.. Also because there IS NO real argument
for it..

You take people who openly attack and curse the tourist's home country... projection and ignorance combined with
the pleasure of being the focus of attention: they generalize one person to the whole country and it's leader. They
are all alike kind of attitude.

Most terrorist groups function on this. Which is why the solution is not in trying to eradicate them, but trying to listen
to their point. Terrorism is consequence of serious frustration and as such a safety valve in the global economy. If it
all functions there is no reason for it, but it never does, so there will always be unsatisfied people, who become
frustrated, resentful and then terrorists.. But that is and I'm sorry I got carried away. The point is people are the
same, it is fear and ignorance that make us perceive eachother as monsters..

It's all sadly simple and dumb and if people would realize it, most of it would fall off, just like fall leaves from a tree.

[freespace2dotcom]

DocHoliday wrote:
Ah, so desu ka. That would then mean not understand or don't understand. A rather unsophisticated way of
expressing oneself in Japanese

Oh, I see it now, blasted conjugations!!

I used wakarunai
You used wakarimasen

Mine was ruder, (or I'd like to say less polite) but both have the same meaning otherwise as far as I can see. it's the
same base word! (I can't believe I didn't catch it! I've got a lot of work to do.)

DanSteph wrote:
Sorry that's plain wrong, I know that the relation beetween the two country aren't going really well
and that you can hear horrible stories about french people but you know french people aren't
monster they are almost as american, got a house, a car watching tv and they are mostly friendly....
About english, the last mode for english people is to buy a house in france when they get retreated
so you even have some small village where 60% of the population speak english and there is no problem
at all.
You know I traveled a lot around the world and you can hear horrible stories about peoples,
fear, ignorance and common racism propagate them...  What I did find while travelling is that people are
almost the same in every country, french don't have a third eyes, asian people don't eat children etc etc.

Yeah sorry.. I heard that it was only in a few specific neighborhoods, and then I only heard it from a few teachers that
supposedly visited them. Since I figured they'd know, I wouldn't have said that otherwise.. sorry again.. Though by
the way, I never did hear about that third eye thing. much less would I have believed it.

[DocHoliday]

Well the Indians have a third eye takes time to master the technique behind it... think it's called meditation or
something like that... weird innit?

[freespace2dotcom]

actually, I think that's a religion specific thing rather than a county specific, but yeah, I hear you. I don't think that
actually works though. (but who knows, I'm not into that stuff)

[DocHoliday]

I know, I was just being ign'ant

Alors, je propose que le francophones aussi participe dans ce thread Nous n'avons pas assez diversite maintenant.
On ne parle pas que l'anglais et un petit d'alemagne Alors, bienvenus!

Auch die Deutsche sprechenden Leute bitte f­ühlen sie sich nicht begrentzt (?) in die Diskussion teil zu nehmen...
(whew, that took some thinking, hope I didn't get it too wrong)

Cheers,

Oh, I just got reminded of this by freespace's sig:
"The trouble is not the polution, but the lack of clean air." -  I think the mastermind was GW Bush
Edit: Nope, I think this one was Al Gore's



Post Edited ( 04-23-04 08:15 )

[freespace2dotcom]

I've got lots of funny sayings. I'll be changing my sig often out of boredom with my current one.

[DocHoliday]

Hm, I remember in the old days, when there were still BBS's you could have your mail program put a random sig to
your message. Nowadays you probably need to have a special mail client to support that. I know Outlook never
thought of it

Maybe we could get Dan to let us have individual .txt signature lists, where the code would choose one randomly to
append to a new post?

[McBrain]

Hey, thats a good idea. but then we should put a list of signatures to our account properties instead of posting .txt files.

[DocHoliday]

You're right, that's a lot better.

[freespace2dotcom]

Indeed it is..

[Krytom]

....Mmm.......indeed...

[freespace2dotcom]

Then it's settled, lets go off to dan's house at midnight whilst he sleeps, take off his shoes, and tickle him mercilessly
with a feather duster until he agrees with us.