The truth is in here...not out there

[chris]

Hi and welcome to all Orbinauts.
I will start with just one question.
Are we alone ?
From my own experience, I know that our governments are hidding us the truth about Alien life forms.
Aren't we ready by now to learn about the truth ?
I would say "yes" even so there would be suddenly a dramatic rise of cults. We, the human race are ready to face
the facts and this would give us a chance to realize that we are all brothers on earth.
Let's just hope our crazy leaders won't start a war with Aliens.(sounds crazy but isn't it true ?)
Let's make Space a weapon free environment and may our children be wiser than us in their choices.
Our biggest enemy is ourself.

Peace and much love.

Chris "Frenchie" (please visit Dr Steven Greer's website at "cseti.com" it stands for "Center for studies in
Extraterrestrial Intelligence"

[DanSteph]

Mhhh sorry Chris I don't believe one second that any governement
is hidding something like that.

A minimum of scientific thinking make me believe that if the life is sure at 100%
in universe and that intelligent life MAY be present SOMEWHERE in universe
There is about no chance that they took contact with us and also less chance
that they took contact with our government. (who want to take contact anyway
with so dumb people full of their importance and power ?)

And I was a firm believer of alien when I was 17 I have read a lots of books
full of "proofs" but since I was forced to admit that none of them resist
to any logic analize.

For me it's just another phenomen as religion, litle green people or troll
that many men believe without any more proof than their hown conviction
or the habit of their ancestors.

The humain mind is so made that if we strongly want to see something,
no problem we will see those things. Our brain is made to construct
shortcut and see link beetween things.

Anyway I agree about peace on the world
There is too much racism , nationalism and such craps to my taste
People need to wake up and look stars and the marvellous story that
made us from the big-bang, it's so an incredible story and it's so incredible
that we are here that I cannot believe that someone hate another guy just
because of it's nationality or skin color.

But believe me Chris I would be the first one to want
that green men contacted us. (and the first one to spit on them
if they just contacted our government and accept to remain hidden
after that.

The smaller proof I can give you is "if they contacted us, would our
governement still act so dumbly without any care about planet or people ?"


Dan
Ps: please no flameware in this thread, I know this can be a sensible
subject that upset some.

[glObalist]

chris wrote:

> Hi and welcome to all Orbinauts.
> I will start with just one question.
> Are we alone ?
> From my own experience, I know that our governments are hidding
> us the truth about Alien life forms.
> Aren't we ready by now to learn about the truth ?
> I would say "yes" even so there would be suddenly a dramatic
> rise of cults. We, the human race are ready to face
> the facts and this would give us a chance to realize that we
> are all brothers on earth.
> Let's just hope our crazy leaders won't start a war with
> Aliens.(sounds crazy but isn't it true ?)
> Let's make Space a weapon free environment and may our children
> be wiser than us in their choices.
> Our biggest enemy is ourself.
>
> Peace and much love.
>
> Chris "Frenchie" (please visit Dr Steven Greer's website at
> "cseti.com" it stands for "Center for studies in
> Extraterrestrial Intelligence"


This is so silly I don't even know where to start...

But alright, you got me going. So I ask, what's this experience of yours concerning governments concealing the truth
about alien life-forms?

[Orbiter Fan]

glObalist wrote:

> chris wrote:
>
> > Hi and welcome to all Orbinauts.
> > I will start with just one question.
> > Are we alone ?
> > From my own experience, I know that our governments are
> hidding
> > us the truth about Alien life forms.
> > Aren't we ready by now to learn about the truth ?
> > I would say "yes" even so there would be suddenly a
> dramatic
> > rise of cults. We, the human race are ready to face
> > the facts and this would give us a chance to realize that
> we
> > are all brothers on earth.
> > Let's just hope our crazy leaders won't start a war with
> > Aliens.(sounds crazy but isn't it true ?)
> > Let's make Space a weapon free environment and may our
> children
> > be wiser than us in their choices.
> > Our biggest enemy is ourself.
> >
> > Peace and much love.
> >
> > Chris "Frenchie" (please visit Dr Steven Greer's website at
> > "cseti.com" it stands for "Center for studies in
> > Extraterrestrial Intelligence"
>
>
> This is so silly I don't even know where to start...
>
> But alright, you got me going. So I ask, what's this experience
> of yours concerning governments concealing the truth
> about alien life-forms?

I guess his source for this info is the TV series "The X-Files".

[A. Roy]

Well if we want to start throwing fact's around the room, then here in one for the books. Aliens ARE HERE, they have
been here for at least the past 150,000 years now and are continually arriving. The aliens I speak of are FUNGI. The
spore from a mushroom has one of the hardest coatings known to man, thus enabling it to travel through the
atmosphere without burning up, supporting the now conclusive evidence from carbon dating and several other forms
of sample dating the fact, yes I said FACT, that Fungi are ALIENS. 8o

Aric

[chris]

What up Dan ?

Thanks for responding to this one so quick.
I'll try to make a long story short.

Ist of all, I highly recommand to anyone to get their hands on 3 videos listed below to start with :

The Disclosure Project.  Part 1 & Part 2 (E-Mule is good, ooopppss sorry, no advertising)
The Disclosure Project "@National Press Conference. U.S.A"

This will give you a pretty good idea on how much knowledge is being hidden to us (wich is logical if you are IN power
or OVER the power)

We have too keep in mind that some of our taxes contribute to the development and the gathering of information
related to "Anomalous Atmospheric Phenomenas". In my country (France) it is called SEPRA aka GEPAN and is directly
dependant and sponsored by the CNES (National Center for Spatial Studies)

I can assure you that I personnally debriefed individuals including a Police Officer, an Astrnomer and an ex  Army
Helicopter pilot who chased a phenomena.
None of these people want to talk about it with their "co-workers" because of the "ridicule" surrounding the subject.

This is just a drop in an ocean of data and information.

No, I don't believe that the governments are telling the truth, why would they ? (little do they know anyway, even
the U.S President is not 100 % Security cleared, but Bush knows a lot more than his predecessor)
They always bend reality to their advantage as usual. Its Math for them but unfortunatly not for the people.
Wich super power would be dumb enough to admit that they recovered an alien spacecraft ?
Secret agencies would be out of work.

I just hope that the people you will see in these videos will hold a session in front
of  Congress and that they will also tour the world and do "tv shows".

I respect your opinion Dan and I find it interesting, this is a democracy and we can learn from
each other. I am sure that people will be mature enough to respond to this subject.

Peace. Chris "Frenchie"

[A. Roy]

Chris, I stand with you.
 I have been involved with several people with military backgrounds including one of my own. I do know of several
instances where we were told to not disclose actual events but rather pre-scripted recollections of events provided
by our CO. As far as our governments not being very intelligent, well, I don't think there is a person in the world that
doesn´t have some quarrel with a government agency, so intelligence is just a matter of perspective.

In the words of Gorge Carlin "....every time I am driving I encounter two types of people; The ******* maniacs driving
faster then me, and the god damn morons going slower then me!....."
As you can see, there is much in life that will always reside within the realm of one's own perspective. Never more,
never less. Is the truth out there? Isn´t really the question in my opinion, but rather, do we understand what the
truth is; what do we believe and what don't we? Is seeing always believing or is it like a modern painting, no one can
really agree on what they see in it, but only offer their own perspective? I think in short, the truth and the
conspiracies will be available till the end of time; it will be solely in your hands as to what you choose to believe. For
those whom don´t share a view, let them, it was never a choice of ours to make.

I could go on for hours, given I am a philosophy major, possibly day´s. I will spare you all that torture.  Let´s all
make sure to do one thing after all is said and done though; make sure we don´t let this interfere with the reason we
are all here, Orbiter and Dan´s Add-on´s.


Aric

[DanSteph]

I strongly believe that government hide things to us:
deal with 'ennemy' , emphasis on false facts so the opinion
are faked and the list is very long.

In fact the whole art of politician in democracy
it to tell us 1/2 thruth so they still have people that vote for them.
I do no condamn this, nobody would vote for someone that just tell
us the full truth. And often someone that want to do good must preach the false
else people will empeach him because good things do not come from good action
every time.

Anyway as I told I do not believe that governements
can/want/ hide or know anything about alien or any
strange things

Dan

[DanSteph]

A. Roy wrote:
> make sure to do one thing after all is said and done though;
> make sure we don´t let this interfere with the reason we
> are all here, Orbiter and Dan´s Add-on´s.

Btw: I do not see any problem that slightly off topic things are discussed here
as long as it's done with mutual respect without insults or personnal attack.

Sharing point of view is what those forums are about so please feel free
to write.

The only things that are forbidden are politicall or religion concern as it ALWAYS
finish in flameware.


Dan

[Krytom]

Well, you know why governments are looking for intelligent life off-world.....because there's not much here!

Confirmed Pilot Krytom

P.S. I don't need no instructor!

[DanSteph]

And the better proof that alien ARE inttelligent is that they
never tried to contact us


Dan
(ps: this is copied from Calvin & hobbes)





Post Edited (04-07-04 02:49)

[canadave]

I'll weigh in here, since the prospect of alien life is one that's always fascinated me.

It seems very likely that there is life on some other planet somewhere.  Given the numerous billions of galaxies, each
with a hundred billion stars, it seems to me to be the height of human narcissism to think that we are all alone,
unique, and that somehow the rest of the universe is "immune" to the processes that created life on Earth many
millions of years ago.  The recipe for life doesn't appear to have been particularly hard to achieve; get a planet the
right distance from a star, get the right elements on it, add some geological action, and voila--carbon-based life-
forms.  Give those life-forms enough time, and intelligence is bound to emerge.  This seems so self-evident to me that
I have a hard time picturing a scenario where the universe isn't *teeming* with life.

Dave

[DocHoliday]

Hi all (Congratulation on your promotion Krytom, by the way)

I thought I'd put in my perspective. I am glad this forum unlike the rest I've seen discussing this sort of subject
remains totally peaceful and respectful of eachother. And since we are giving opinions to which all we have a right, I
wish to share mine.

I do agree with what you said, about the probability of life, carbon or otherwise based, also I agree intelligent life
would not contact Earth at our current stage of inner insecurity and volatility (Prime Directive is a grand idea, which I
believe the intelligent Aliens would adopt sooner than we would), also that the mere size of universe (or lack of its
outer limits) categorically confirms the existance of virtually unlimited number of living planets. But... we are working
on certain assumtions here. For the sake of argument, or rather contemplation, I offer these views of many that
smart people came up with in the past:

1. Are we really ready to go explore the deep space? With all the petty differences and what not, we are better off
(no actually the rest of space) to stay put and work them out first, before polluting others.

2. Appart from our five senses, which can be fooled (think Matrix), we have no concrete proof that distant stellar
objects actually exist in the manner we percieve them. They might be just some sort of collective noise. Like when you
plug your ears and believe you have absolute silence, you can always detect some residual sound. The whole space
could be a sort of residual effect but on a level of all living creatures we are aware of. In this case it is rediculous to
talk about aliens. This is the entropic theory. The universe is there for you to see, and you can see to observe the
universe. The trick is, when you actually fly out, the universe "provides for you" what you would call Moon soil. Which
follows then is, if you imagine a living planet out there and enough people believe it, the universe will provide. But is it
then still alien life? Or just a "mental projection of your alien self"?

3. A different view: the universe is full of life. And since it is so old and so big, many of the space faring races have
already visited. There are actually hyperlanes around Earth and various bypasses near Jupter. Why do we not see
them or are able to interact with them? Because there is one major requirement for spacefaring species. Mental
readiness. We are not ready. Think 5% of brain we are able to use... To use a metaphore: if you pinch a cat, it will try
to grab your hand, because it does not connect the hand being a part of you and therefore it would be more effective
to scratch you in the face? Or... how can you understand the inner working of an F-16 Falcon, if the most advanced
thing you know is the steam engine? Or... how can you see the forrest, when standing inside it, 0.5m away and
facing a giant tree? The POINT: We lack the mental ability to percieve the various planes of existence and thought
that would enable us at the moment, to go to space fullyheartedly, or even to see the others doing it for that matter..
And they watch upon as as we would upon the monkeys in a ZOO. "They are so intelligent for carbon-based animals!
They have such cute potential to evolve into us if they survive the path!". No need to be insulted or hurt by this sort
of elevated alien view. It is a fact probably and we do it ourselves to less intelligent creatures .... EVEN IF WE WENT
to space, with the current technology, we wouldn't get far. Even if we had "Warp technology", how would we
perceive distances, time and all the difficulties such gigantic distances entail? If you go at superlight velocity, all kinds
of strange things might happen. Mass increase, time reduction, dimensonal distortion (think Einstein). We are
currently physically and mentally not equipped to handle all that. If you get to Alpha Centauri in 1 year, and in 1 year
you are back and then reserve space on the Advanced (whatever) Hubble and then WATCH Alpha Centauri, you
would see yourself going there, spending time there and coming back, coz the light would lag behind... How do you
handle that? And since we are social creatures, we would die of lack of contact with Earth if we were to be stranded
on a planet in Sirius system? Not to mention the primitive R-complex brain drives that still dominate us in times of
extreme isolation and/or need which would probably destroy any kind of expedition/colony within a few years. Think
jealousy, anger, fear, fight for rare resources, madness...

So, anyway, I got carried away. What I am saying is that this sort of topic is quite impossible to discuss, much less to
come to any kind of credible conclusion, because we can all be right or all be wrong or neither. Now I don't expect
replies or further discussion on what I said, but I would like you all to think about this. Is it really as simple as green
men, government conspiracy, warp theory.. Or are there issues the humans as a race need to cope with, before the
solutions will present themselves as clear as a bright spring morning? And if there are, are we able to discuss them
yet? Or do we need to be patient, wait for the race to pace itself to proper evolutionary state to be ready to step out
of the cradle?

Chris, thanks for openning the topic and sorry if I gave less than an optimistic view about it.

Cheers,

[chris]

Hi everyone.

I want to thank everyone for responding with such maturity and mutual respect.
This is what forums are all about.

Ist of all, I do not get my info from some dumb tv show like the "X-files" (answering OrbiterFan)
As a matter of fact I never liked this show and the main actor (forgot his name) is a member of the Sceptic Society in
the States.
Sceptics are the kind of people who will explain what we see by some phylosophical interpretations. (great)
I do come from a phylosphical country, believe me but sometimes you have to call a cat a cat.
Denying the fact that Ufos are visiting us and are getting our government agencies busy would be showing
our ignorance toward the subject.

We (the human race) are studying these unknown objects with care and data is gathered...
Some of them (objects) are from this earth of course and a lot of reports, specially coming from civilians are
misinterpretations with known or less known meteorological phenomenas like "thermal inversions, plasma fx, etc..."

But when you get reports from ground radar, ground visual, aircraft radar and visual then philosophy isn't much
help for you.
Hundreds of ex-military, aircraft pilots, atc's, even Nasa people have come foward this subject and are actually
discussing with other people about this matter.

Are they dumb ? Do they lie for some reason ?
I don't think so, the testimonies you will watch if you download the videos I mentionned in this forum come from Army
Pilots, N.O.R.A.D people, Black projects, Scientists involved in the duplication of Foreign Technologies.......and are a
small part of the Iceberg.

Before one can make it's own opinion, it should never underestimate or deny the amount of data that
we have already.

I know this is a hard subject but you guys have shown me that this forum rules and that we the "orbinauts" are
apeacefull community.  And if we keep an open mind everything will slowly become more logical.


Thanks Dan and all the others I haven't mentionned.

Peace, Chris "frenchie"

[Krytom]

Take us to your leader!

[DocHoliday]

Shut up Krytom!

chris, I do urge you to use common sense when reading reports and watching material like this. I've seen a lot of it
and although it is pretty convincing, perhaps even beyond doubt, there ARE other factors you have to take info
account. Things like, authors of the series wanting to get viewer ratings, publicity, to embarass public figures. These
can influence the authors to embelish certain facts with irrelevant additional decoration, make it more dramatic,
sometimes to the point of jumping to conclusions, asking misleading questions and stating opinions as facts. It's just
psychology and what's worse, these same show may even be produced under the direction of the same shadow
government you talk about.. think about it.

If UFOs are fact and the people who know about it, want it hidden, how to make it so? Put it in a harmless
documentary, pull a few people of the street and get them to state opinions about it, include (mind you!) the people
who REALLY saw something, stick it on Discovery and then end the show by saying something like: "Are we really
alone? Is the government hiding it all? Only time will tell." At the end of the day, this kind of show, even though it
did tell the truth, but bent it, put some people who seem rediculous or have low credibility along with the poor fellows
who know something and the mainstream audience will think of it as a cute show, believing none of it, and ridiculing
anyone who does. People like you. Mission achieved. The truth is in the open and people chose not to believe it.
Secret safe. This sort of tactics works in most walks of life, not just UFOs. Even relationships and (the forbidden topics
of) religion and politics.. (think: Hi, where is the cat? I killed it... Very funny... No, I really did.. Stop it and tell me where
the cat is! ..etc....)   See my point?

Be careful what you believe and what you believe do not share to people in general or you will get responses like
Krytom (no offense),  only worse. And always try to read the opposite view as well, even though it is against your
better judgment. You will get better insight and be able to catch both sides when they leave the realm of fact and
wander into the realm of make believe How would you know that some UFOs are weather baloons, or Venus, if you
never read a sceptics point of view. On the other hand there'd be no UFOs if there were no believers.. all sightings
would be discounted as atmospheric fx and particle radiation or even mass hsysteria

[harmsway]

[harmsway]

[Krytom]

I'm sorry.

[canadave]

lol...Gene, you kill me with those smileys......

Dave

[DocHoliday]

Yeeeessss, Gene?

[harmsway]

         

Gene

[DanSteph]

canadave wrote:

> I'll weigh in here, since the prospect of alien life is one
> that's always fascinated me.
>
> It seems very likely that there is life on some other planet
> somewhere.  Given the numerous billions of galaxies, each
> with a hundred billion stars, it seems to me to be the height
> of human narcissism to think that we are all alone,
> unique, and that somehow the rest of the universe is "immune"
> to the processes that created life on Earth many
> millions of years ago.

True and right, studying also the prehistory is a fascinating things
that let you *see* more or less what could/are/was happening on
other planet.

From the precambrien (burgess rock) where the first form of evoluted
live are ambedded into the rock to later period it's really fascinating.
We can see in the burgess rock the first form of life that have
a squeletton (it was a sort of small worm) and THAT is likely to be the ancestor
of all life on earth that have a squeletton. (dinosaurs, cat, elephant, humain, whale etc etc)
burgess rock:  http://www.fossilmall.com/Western_Fossils/Cambrian_Animals/SB002/SB02.htm

pikaia, perhaps our ancestor:



Anyway a lot of hazardous things form a long chain of things that finally
leaded to our appearence... what if *pikaia* (or his friend) didn't won the competition ?

What if there is no moon that stabilise the axe of earth (season change very rude)
what if there was no 7 massive extinction of species in history ?
What if.... etc etc there is thousand and thousands of hazardous factors like that

Anyway I'm dying to not KNOW yet and to not SEE what happen on others planets.

For me, as you I'm 200% sure that live exist on others planets, but I must reduce my
hope about intteligent life living right now

After all we seem to be *inttelligent* since only 100'000 years perhaps
and that is nothing in regard of the time/space distances.
how long can we last now with our technology ? that's another question.


But , dave you didn't stated if you believe that the green one are shaking
some hands actually on earth ?

For me it's an absolute no.

Distance, space travel, chance that they explored our planet just in time
(last 5000 years) to see that we are a *promising* lifeform.

And this is taken in account that it's possible to travel at the speed of light
or faster wich seem impossible in theory right now. (don't tell me our
ancestor thought it was impossible to travel at 100kmh, this is a
slippery slope: " www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/ss.php "

And I don't take in account the ridiculous things that after a so big travel
they would have only contacted our dumb governement and accepted to
remain hidden. (and any other story I have read about them that share the same
major characteristic: they seem all ridiculous and totally "humanocentrist" )

Dan



Post Edited (04-08-04 17:01)

[canadave]

Oh, right, sorry Dan...forgot to add in that I don't believe in UFOs or little green men  I think it's fairly obvious to
anyone who seriously thinks about that with an open mind that it's all fantasies.  I guess my first question is, if UFOs
exist, how come they never land in the middle of New York City?  They always seem to choose some deserted
farmer's field

By the way, I know what you're saying about the "intelligent life lifespan" thing...the idea that we might be alone
*right now* as intelligent life forms.  But I still think, given the immensity of the universe, I find it hard to fathom how
intelligent life could arise here, and yet be rare in other places.  I mean, think about it this way--in some galaxy 100
million light years away, on a small planet (maybe the fourth one) orbiting a medium-aged star about two-thirds of
the way from the galactic center, there's probably intelligent life  My point here is, of course, that our solar
neighborhood doesn't seem to me to be tremendously "unique."  With the numbers of galaxies around, each with
their huge numbers of potential Suns, I see it as improbable that we are alone as intelligent life, even with the vast
timelines of the universe being so large compared to the relatively short period of intelligent lifespans.

Dave

[chris]

Hi everyone,

It's interesting to see how everyone come to their own conclusion
by using their own little technique.                                                                                                                                  
Some of us will use Math and Statistics,                                                                                                                      
some of us will look at it from a less technical point of view.

Anyway, coming to conclusions is something that I DO NOT pretend.
Studying, reading, listening, gathering facts and releasing them, is something that I DO pretend.

Let me reassure you, I am not here to make people visit some dumb "ufo related websites" or
try to make people  believe in anything.

But I am here to stimulate everyone here about the fact that "YES" there's material to study,
everyone can access it :  (COMETA REPORT- Les OVNIS et la Securite).
This is a 900 pages report that you can download. It was sent to the 1st Minister and to Jackes Chirac.

Just to give you a hint, the Launch Director@Kourou, Guyane is also the main Director
of a the U.E.C wich stands for more or less "European Scientists Union For The Disclojure"

These people including Claude Chapeau (Astrophysician C.N.E.S) who left us 2 months ago (RIP)
are or were directly implicated with the phenomenas whether they wanted it or not.
I had an hour long discussion with this professor who was 82 and still had full potential.
He told me "they are just there, every flight in space is an encounter"

Once more, let me ask you, why would people like this lie ?
Why do we systematically deny facts and always come to our own conclusions ?

Back in history, people such as scientists would gather data, create equations to figure them out and then
they would freely release their results also called "facts".
Well, unfortunatly for some of them, these facts scared the hell out of the people in charge.
This same people would rather come to their own conclusions and eliminate these poor scientists.

Well, thanks for reading.
Dan and everyone, I ain't some freek, I am just like you guys.

Peace...I Should get back to my DGIII, my girl is sleeping hehe