A challenge. OK just a mini challenge.

[MattNW]

Try this. It's an interesting flight. Open the KSC scenario and get the GSNDO going. Now take off
using the hover engines then engage the "hold altitude AP" and try to fly without switching
to "translation mode" using only rotational thrust. Ie... lower the nose to fly forward and bank left
and right to control sidwise movement. Try flying to the Visitors Center and land on pad #1 of the
VTOL pads or even more challenging try taxing from pad #1 to pad #10 just a couple meters off
the ground. Don't take out the hangrail or any buildings in the process.

It's not too difficult once you get the hang of it but it gives a cool sense of flight that you don't get
from translational thruster flight.

[C3PO]

Actually I've already done that 8) (now I understand why they call the Harrier Jump Jet the
widdowmaker)

But here is another one:

Fly to Brighton beach with realistic fuel. I've managed to get to the moon, but I didn't have enough
fuel to land. I had a total of 416 kg of fuel BEFORE earth ejection 8o

I tried to start from Habana, but the vertical take-off didn't help much in the fuel-
department . Maybe when I'm better at taking off verticaly I will save more fuel.

I had one passenger on that flight (after take-off I checked on the crew and guess what... It was
Neil Armstrong ) Does the passengers and life support system affect the weight of the
glider?

I don't know what the socalled "realistic" fuel is based on, but it would be nice to be able to take a
trip to the moon (and back) in the G-SNDO.

[DanSteph]

C3PO wrote:
> I had one passenger on that flight (after take-off I checked on
> the crew and guess what... It was
> Neil Armstrong ) Does the passengers and life support system
> affect the weight of the
> glider?

You mean that you leaved Neil somewhere beetween earth and moon ?
that's not fair

Each passenger add 140kg to the weight of the ship...

The "realistic fuel" parameter make the consumption of fuel much higher
It's called "realistic" because the size and the look of the DeltaGlider
make thinks that this vessel would only be used for LEO operation
unless it have an unknow and futuristic engine. This is a great limitation
in the use of the deltaglider to what "would" be it's flight domain in 2016.

This is only for "hard-core" gamer that love to deal with 0.3% fuel remaining
when they reach target.

For other I suggest an halt at a space station for refueling before attempting
a moon trips.

Dan

[MattNW]

I've made it to Brighton and other Moon bases on a tank of fuel but when I got there it definately
was hitting E. I think the trick is to launch into an orbit that conserves fuel. I just got lucky and
found one. For long duration flights I use unlimited fuel at the moment or I use a ship like Doradus
(my current long distance realistic ride). For simple touring I use the G-SNDO but I don't worry
about fuel consumption. If you can make it to the Moon then you could refuel at Brighton for the
trip back. The trick is getting there. About the best method I can think of is to launch to the ISS
and refuel and then on to the Moon refueling for the trip back.

I think Dan said once that the weight is affected somewhat by the passengers. He uses a default
weight per passenger I think that includes all consumables.  I have neighbors who get home late
and their kids come over after school usually with a couple friends so I haven't been able to use
the default passengers too often. I usually have a full passenger list and several waiting every
trip. Gonna start charging as an airline pretty soon . Kind of wish I you could enter passenger's
actual weights. It'd save me a lot of fuel.

Have you tried the external tank for he Delta Glider? It's available on AVSIM. You can use that for
take off and edit the G-SNDO in after you achieve orbit. That should give you a lot more fuel to play
around with.

[C3PO]

So..... I guess I must be a "hard-core realistic" gamer

I've thought of going to the ISS for fuel, but to get aligned to the moon is going to use most of the
fuel. The ISS isn't verry well placed for a gas-station

There is another way to fix the fuel problem. Send the fuel up to the glider. I did this when I went
to saturn for a loooooong weekend 8o (but I had to refill the O2 tanks a couple of times)

I used the Ariane V to launch the fuelmodule (from the stationbuilder project) from Kouru.....
worked like a charme

The only problem was that the sounds of the Ariane were a bit messed up, but I can live with that.

So there you have you'r next project. A cargo shuttle to lift heavy stuff (like fuel) to LEO
(just kiddin) I guess we space pilots (that can't program anything to save our lives) are really
spoiled by the brilliant engineers who build theese fantastic ships!!!

[DanSteph]

MattNW wrote:
> Have you tried the external tank for he Delta Glider? It's
> available on AVSIM. You can use that for
> take off and edit the G-SNDO in after you achieve orbit. That
> should give you a lot more fuel to play
> around with.

I'm somewhat frustrated cause I cannot edit the DG's mesh
to add some "goodies" so adding external tank is a floating
idea in my mind... but I can't add too many things
so it may be only that : a floating idea.

Dan

[DanSteph]

C3PO wrote
>I used the Ariane V to launch the fuelmodule (from the stationbuilder project) from Kouru.....
>worked like a charme

That is a great idea and should have been a great mission to fly.

There's plenty of really nice things to do for "hard-core-spationaut"
in mean of customizing mission... I saw lately that there was some nice space
station released that could serve refuelling purpose... they just need to be on
the right orbit.

Anyways it's far more fun to launch it's fuel tank and come lately to refuel.

Dan

PS: if you want to have normal sound for the ariane you may
      design a mission when you enter FIRST in the ariane
      and come ONLY lately in the glider when fuel tank is in orbit.
      The engine sound are disconnected as soon as you enter
       the glider's panel... (didn't test this anyway so I'm not 100%
      sure off this one)
 

[DanSteph]

MattNW wrote:
I usually have a full passenger list and several waiting every
trip. Gonna start charging as an airline pretty soon  . Kind of wish I you could enter passenger's
actual weights. It'd save me a lot of fuel.


140kg per passenger that completely realistic, think about it:
Of course the children weight less but you must also take all the cookies
toys and other stuff that children usually carry when they travel

And you are lucky I didn't count the biggest toys they received
last christmas

Dan

[C3PO]

I don't like to edit the scenario files unless it's a workaround for something. (there is that "hard-
core" thing again)

Anyway.... external tanks are for OLD space craft. (STS-1 was launched in 1981)

I like the idea of an "orbital fuel truck" better. I think that is the way it is going to be done for
many years to come. The (unmanned) ballistic rocket is by far the cheepest option for heavy cargo.

And then I get to have fun intercepting and docking!!!!!

It is a lot of fun making a trip to the moon into a small project. I launched the G-SNDO into the right
orbit. Then I edited the .scn file to make it a standard Deltaglider(because of the sound) and
launched the Ariane5 with some fuel.
Then I changed it back to G-SNDO and got rid of the Ariane, docked to the fuelmodule and refueled.

How can you ask for more fun? and this is before you even leave for the moon

[DanSteph]

C3PO wrote:
> It is a lot of fun making a trip to the moon into a small
> project. I launched the G-SNDO into the right
> orbit. Then I edited the .scn file to make it a standard
> Deltaglider(because of the sound) and
> launched the Ariane5 with some fuel.
> Then I changed it back to G-SNDO and got rid of the Ariane,
> docked to the fuelmodule and refueled.


Sometime I wish that I'm a twin.... so much idea, so less time

I suppose that it would be possible to make another vessel act himself
flying on autopilot and also communicate with your ship....

You could than command the launch of Arianne, see its launch from the
ground and then follow it in some manner to encounter it in less than 1/4 orbit.

This would definitively a things to do in the next version with the launch
particle effect.

For now you can just take-off in the glider, switch autopilot and then
switch to another vessel near the location the glider will pass over....

Nice Flyby or just a point moving in the sky ? (warning choose another vessel with NO panel, for whatewer reason it crash with one that have a panel)

Dan

[MattNW]

DanSteph wrote:

And you are lucky I didn't count the biggest toys they received
last christmas

Can you imagine the cost of putting a racing quad into orbit. Of course I might just pay to take it to
BMars. Think of the airtime you could get in that gravity.    

Probably would be a minimum. Ever notice airline passengers and their bags? Flying into space there would have to be some limit set on weight so the 140kg would be just about right. I've heard of some airlines talking about charging passengers who are overweight (both bags and the passenger). Wonder what that'd be for space carriers.



Post Edited (03-24-03 23:31)

[OrbiterBri]

Dan,
I think I sent idea to you on E-mail about having a drive section that could be launched into orbit.
The Delta Glider could be docked with this.
Maybe the this unit could contain fuel and bigger engines. Anyway if it just contained masses of
fuel and 02/N2 you could then use the external transfer to top up the DG as required.
I think to start with we do not need to launch into orbit. Just place it in LEO in the scenario the
docking and transponders running ready for the DGII to meet up with. Launch to orbit could be
figured out latter - maybe a couple of solid rocket boosters and external tank from the shuttle?
Forget about redesigning the DGII mesh dock with the front docking port. Have a structure on top
of the drive section/tank designed for this - Imagine the Starship enterprise with the engines and
bridge removed with the DGII docked over the engineering section where the saucer section
would normaly go (Does that  make sense?).
We would just need some kind of gauge then to show how much remain in tank.
On getting to moon or mars once in stable orbit undock land explore and the rejoin the drive
section for the journey home.
Maybe someone with the skills could design the Tank / Drive section mesh for you?

[C3PO]

OrbiterBri wrote:

I think I sent idea to you on E-mail about having a drive section that could be launched into orbit.
The Delta Glider could be docked with this.

That would be a verry nice addon! I've tried to fly when docked, but that makes the Glider verry
hard to manouver. But if the docked stack behaved like ONE ship it would be verry nice indeed.
Maybe if the Glider was docked somwhere near the CoG of the stack it will be easyer to manouver.
That would also make it more challengeing to dock (using the visual crash-detection)



Post Edited (03-26-03 21:52)

[OrbiterBri]

C3PO,
I wish I had the skills to work on a project like this, but I just fly em!!!
I would think you coul position the DG any where allong the stack you wanted. Just don't use
hover thrust or you would be toast!!
I was hoping that it would be possible to dock using a docking signal like on a space station.
It is not supposed to be very manouverable, it just a way of travelling long distance.
Maybe it would have to have it's own manouvering jets & drive that engage when docked. It
would get around the problem of manouvering and DG would not detonate the whole thing by
firing it RCS jets against the drive section/fuel tank.
But this sounds like a lot of work - I don't think anyone will ever take this on.
Brian.