Disabling Re-Entry Burnup

[SWAFO]

Hi all,
        Just wondering how I would go about disabling the possibility of a burnup on re-entry.  I'd like to start practicing
with the DGIII, and I don't want to risk a burnup on re-entry.

Thanks,
Brad

[StarLost]

You know, I'm not sure that you can.

"Chicken Mode" ensures that pilot and crew don't die, and you would think, by extension that the ship would have to stay
intact for this to be possible. On your desktop you will find an Icon for DeltaGliderIII Configuration. Select it. In the
lower right hand box (Vessel's settings) you will find two check boxes. Select the upper box.

I've never actually used chicken mode. It was kind of like the kid with a screwdriver and an electrical outlet. You just know
he's gonna test to see if it's live. That's what I did with the 'pop the canopy' switch.

Motivation to succeed is such a wonderful thing.

[canadave]

Here's an open question to the audience that I either never thought about or have forgotten:  Do the DG3 and the
stock DG from Orbiter have significantly different handling characteristics in atmosphere (other than the obvious "you
can die in the DG3 and you can't in the DG")?

If not, I'd suggest to just stick with the stock DG while you're learning (aside from being invulnerable to burning up,
it's also got a nice virtual cockpit--hit F8 a couple of times).  Once you've got space maneuvers and orbital mechanics
down pat, and you've done a reentry or two, then go for the DG3, which of course is a greater challenge trying not to
burn up and has all sorts of fun systems to play with.

Obviously you can do it however you want, but that would be my suggested path of action.

Cheers,
Dave

[Atom]

I re-entered the other day, which I'm amazed at because I haven't played for ages.

[SWAFO]

"chicken mode" doesn't disable re-entry burnup!!!  I really want to try the DGIII, but being new to Orbiter and all, I
don't want a re-entry burnup!  Please advise as to how to disable it!

[SWAFO]

Still no luck in trying to disable the re-entry burnup... I'd love to fly the DG III, but the re-entry burnup is the only
thing preventing me from doing so!  There's gotta be a way to disable it!

[Atom]

You can't disable it.

[SWAFO]

Dan manually edited a file in order to ENABLE it, so there MUST be some way to disable it!

[Atom]

For what it's worth, it's easier to learn re-entry on another craft and then move onto the DGIII. Because the whole beauty of
the DGIII is the realism that you don't get with the other craft, but in some cases it's also a downfall, because it
naturally makes the simulation more difficult.

My suggestion is to learn with another craft, or try and and keep trying again and again and again with the DGIII. Because
that's exactly how I learnt.

[DanSteph]

there is no "more_option " here Brad (private joke)
the burn up is hard coded in the DGIII dll and take dozen lines.


but the FAQ can help you especially the
"3- I keep burning on reentry / temperature readout and limitation ? "
with a post of mega michy that explain a correct "cold" reentry.

here:
http://orbiter.dansteph.com/forum/index.php?topic=11523.msg178270#msg178270

Also before a rentry with the DGIII there is plenty of passionate trip
to do especially mars/phobos with a tutorial available in the download
section.

hope it help ?

Dan



Post Edited ( 08-29-05 02:15 )

[SWAFO]

Dan,
       Actually I would have liked to disable the re-entry burnup.  I'll take a look at the FAQ, however I'm already having
a hard enough time learning some other things (I'd prefer to learn them with the DGIII since it's a very complex
craft).  I guess this is just one more thing to learn!

~Brad

[SWAFO]

It's really too bad there's not an optional version available without the re-entry burnup!  I don't think I'll be playing
with the DGIII much, simply because of the re-entry burnup.  Unfortunately, I compare the DGIII to the PMDG 737,
and the default DG to the MS 737 (speaking of FS2004 here).  Looks like I won't be getting the PMDG!

[SWAFO]

Any chance that Dan's deltaglider II didn't feature the re-entry burnup?  If the DGII works with the latest orbiter
version, and doesn't have the re-entry burnup, that would work for me.  Anyone know where I can download it?  The
link on the FAQ wasn't good anymore

~Brad

[SWAFO]

So I'm guessing the DGII is not available anywhere anymore?

[SWAFO]

Someone's gotta have a copy of the DGII somewhere... I don't think the re-entry burnup is modeled in DGII...
wouldn't that help me to learn it a little better?

[Mole]

michelle megan's tutorial referred to a couple of posts back really works. I have not burned up since I started using it.

If you want a slightly simpler method, make sure your re-entry is between 0.70 to 0.80 degrees, no more. The really
hard part once you learn how to land without burning up, is how to get to the base with the limited fuel you might
have. My goal is to be able to glide shuttle-like, with no engine power, to a perfect landing every time. I basically
picture a "bucket" about 100 km across above the base at an altitude of about 30 km (which is where you can
typically take control of your DG III and fly it like a glider) which you have to "drop" through to stand a chance to do
so succesfully. That means:

a) you must line up your orbit (with Normal+ or Normal- burns) so that it will take you over your base at the time you'll
get there -- this takes some judgment since the earth is spinning "underneath" your orbit;

b) you must time your re-entry burn precisely (since your velocity is about 7km/sec in low orbit there is little margin for
error).

I'm now experimenting with some data so I can compile a table that will tell me how far I need to be out at which
heights when I do my re-entry burn--> I've also seen some tables like this out on the 'Net.

Finally, I just downloaded the BaseSync MFD last night, it promises to assist in all of the above, I really haven't had a
chance to experiment.


Mole

[SWAFO]

I'll check into the BASESYNC MFD.  I've contacted Dan about possibly sending me the DGII (assuming he still has it),
so we'll see.  The tutorial you referred to also would work for me, except I typically find myself starting the small
descent angle not in the area it should occur in.  I'll practice a little more.

[SWAFO]

Actually, I lied!  Everytime I use that tutorial, I seem to drift higher into orbit for some reason (no burns at all).  
Anyone have any advice on this?  When should I activate the PRO104SPEC35 program (or the one recommended in
that tutorial... I can't remember it)?  

Thanks,
Brad

[Mole]

I usually go into "35 degree up" mode at about 100 km altitude. Actually it doesn't really matter too much until you hit
the "denser" parts of the atmosphere at about 70 km. You can monitor the "dynamic pressure" (I've put that variable
in the mini-HUD) because dynamic pressue, as I understand it, is those pesky air molecules colliding with your ship
and causing all that friction , so as long as there's no dynamic pressure, your attitude doesn't really matter. You
could also watch when your speed starts decreasing, although that typically happens a little later (around 50 km).

[SWAFO]

What I have the trouble with is not as much WHEN to activate it (according to altitude), but how to land at a precise
location (SLF at KSC).  I don't have a problem as long as there is no re-entry burnup, but with it, it's a little more
tricky.

[SWAFO]

It seems that I always "skid" off the atmosphere.  I'll get down around 65KM above the surface, and I guess my
speed is just too great.  I always climb back in to space.  I've tested this with descent angles between .5, and 1.5
degrees.  Anything greater than 1.5 and I'll burnup... anything less than .5 and I won't even enter the atmosphere at
all!

[Mole]

SWAFO,

I have noticed a little bit of skipping off the atmosphere too, but eventually the DGIII loses enough energy and starts
sinking again. Angles of 0.70 to 0.80 seem to work fine, and a nose-up attitude of 35 or 40 degrees all seem to work
ok for me.

I follow the advise put on many websites not to touch anything once the temperature starts rising, except when the
temperature gets dangerously hot, in which case raising the nose 5 degrees using the autopilot seems to cool things
sufficiently to get through the "critical" point.

I stop using the autopilot and start flying like a plane once the speed is reduced to about 1000 m/s, at which point
ideally I want to be about 50-100 km before the base where I want to land.


Mole

[SWAFO]

I just successfully re-entered a few times!  I seemed to end up about 1000KM away from KSC when my speed was
1000m/s though.  When do you normally start your retrograde burn for de-orbit?  Perhaps I'll start it at about 900KM
less than recommeded to start it in the manual (so probably on the other side of Australia).  Let me know what you
use.

[Mole]

Unfortunately I had time for only one reentry last night:

Altitude: 250 km, perfect circle (Ecc = 0.0000)
Reentry burn at 153 degrees from base (according to the map display) (so almost on the other side of the world)
Burn until reentry angle (DISP 2) shows 0.70 (about 5 seconds, fine-tuned with the RCS Translation burns)
Attitude 40 degrees nose-up during atmospheric entry using autopilot

I came out a little short but I lowered the nose once I was under 1500 m/s and was able to glide the rest of the way.

BTW I did use BaseSyncMFD, it was perfect in predicting the horizontal correction (so that my flight path took me right
over the base). I took the 153 degrees from another post, it was actually about 5 degrees earlier than what the DEO
function of BaseSyncMFD told me to do (and since I was short, perhaps BaseSync was right!)

I saved the flight right before the re-entry, tonight I will try a few other combinations.

[SWAFO]

Where do you get the BaseSync MFD?  I've looked for it with no luck!