Deltaglider as Payload

[Buran-Pilot]

Hi
i wanted to launch the deltaglider as paylod (on the back of the buran), but: if you seperate the glider from the buran,
the glider disappears, and in the cockpit it's displayed that the pilot were dead.

is it possible to do that correct ? and what do i need to configute for that?

[freespace2dotcom]

Actually, I tried that on the Ariane 5, and got the same results, I think it's because the DG3 has so many states that
need to be known (eg, heart beat rate, if there's nothing that tells orbiter what that state is, then it assumes heart
rate is zero) and the rockets just simply were NOT designed to input all of these factors in, at best, we have the
weight, the model on the back, and that's about it. I don't know how to solve it beyond requesting that the authors
of the rockets to cater to the dg3. (unlikely in my eyes, but who knows?)

[Xian]

Yeah, the DGIII on a rocket would be _really_ nice.
Hope there'll be a working addon someday.

Xian

[leoniner]

You can put the DGIII on the TX Winged Space Launcher.

Just edit the scenario accordingly.

[DocHoliday]

I actually did that, BUT. The DG has a mind of it's own

It thinks it is still on the ground when riding the TX (which is btw a BEAUTIFUL craft - and a smart combination of
shuttle, X-33 and the Russian Tupoljev supersonic:) so you can't pull the gear up. Even if you change the .scn and
eventually do get to orbit and release the DG3 it will immediatelly have a gear failure, have it ripped off the hull and
the hover engines will die too..

Also, the engines on the DG3 have no effect while part of the superstructure. So you can't help the TX with DG3's
engines, until you detach and possibly dock to it's docking port at which point you are perpendicular to the TX's thrust
vector and off the main axis..

So be prepared to "cheat" if you want to use DG3 as an "attached" ship. I just finished taking off with the DG, getting
to orbit, than "adding" some extra fuel and went on to ISS I just had to see both DG3 and TX docked to ISS. It
looks pathetically small then

Cheers, signing off for the night.

[Krytom]

I think the only way the DGIII can ever become a payload without going KAPOOP is if Dan makes his own DG launcher
rocket. At least he'll be able to make the codes agree with eachother.

[DocHoliday]

True. But I do remember SOMEONE actually making an overgrown shuttle ET, that was built for DG specifically a few
months ago on AVSIM.. Maybe it could be joined... Then again. You would only need it for REALLY long trips.

[MattNW]

I've tried this with the DG II. It doesn't work too well as you loose vessel sounds and the panel since you have to fly
from the perspective of the launch vehicle. There's no current way to connect one vessel to another. It can be
approximated though. There's a lauch vehicle made for the standard Delta Glider. You can put one on that and launch
into orbit, seperate the two ships and then edit the scenario to put the DG II or DG III back in.

[DanSteph]

Krytom wrote:
I think the only way the DGIII can ever become a payload without going KAPOOP is if Dan makes his own DG launcher
rocket. At least he'll be able to make the codes agree with eachother.

It seem to me that someone succedeed to transport even two DGIII with a big ship
he his him that asked to me the "safe mode" function for the DGIII so the crew *leave*
the ship when he is docked. (no O2 consumption etc etc)

From the DGIII download page under 040125 rev1 comment:
Added a "safe mode" where your ship is powered only by EPU and the crew unloaded (usefull if you use a bigger
ship to carry the DGIII to destination) see "safe mode / unload crew" check-list in lower panel to know how to enter
this mode.

(EPU is External power unit Ie: the carrier)

Last time I heard about it it worked for him but on the top of my head
I don't recall who it was... and what was the carrier ship.

Dan
PS: payload will not work, but DOCKED ship work.



Post Edited ( 05-09-04 03:34 )

[Xian]

Well is there any carrier that has a docking port instead of using the carried spaceship as
a payload? I didn't find anything yet. :-(

And since i don't know much about Scenario and Shipconfig-Files, i think it would be hard
to convert an existing carrier into something that could work with the DGIII

Xian

[DanSteph]

There is one.. don't remind is name

search perhaps on this forum the words "safe mode" ("search" link at top)
this should give you the topic where the discussion started about the
carrier ship I know the link to the ship should not be that far.

I Must go to bed... again

Dan

[Aqua]

But will safe mode prevent the gear and hover thrusters from damage when you jettison it? The fuel and atmosphere consumption
is not a problem since the dg's status is landed while attached. You can add fuel and O2 and nitrogen just as if you where
landed at a base.

[Xian]

This is the point, we're not talking about an attached DG anymore - It won't work properly.
As Dan said before, the only way would be a _docked_ DG.

Safe mode is, if i understood that right, for docked crafts only.

Xian

[DocHoliday]

Dan, I think you're referring to Vespucci-C. Another grand ship. It's on OrbitHanger.. Someone (I hate not being good
on names memory, but I would like to thank them anyway) edited the original vespucci, so it can carry 4 smaller ships
docked on it's side. The C version has 2 DG3 docked and it works.. you can also dock the Workpods on it.. there are 4
docks around the vessels thrust axis, all facing backwards, with 90deg between them.  You have to dock identical
ships on all four or at least on two opposite docks, to minimize the weight offset.

But in space there is really no problem as long as the docked ship doesn't offset the thrust vecor of the "carrier" by a
large margin. The problem is with the launch to LEO. You would have to launch the DG3 docked to a launcher and you
have two options:
- DG3 on top of the launcer with the nose down to ground, so it can be docked.. I don't know how the aerodynamics
would (not) work in this case
- the DG3 INSIDE the launcher, docked to an internal docking port along the thrust axis of the launcher.

I mentioned this before I think on another thread here. The idea is perfectly simple and it would look like this:
http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/Doppleganger/DopplegangerTop.htm

Dove = DG3 (looks quite similar anyway)
Phoenix = the mythical bird noone created yet Although in this case, the Phoenix was meant as a interplanetary
carrier, not launch vehicle. But it's design SHOULD perform well enough in atmoshperic conditions too. (Oberve the
rest of the photo material on the site) EDIT: Granted, the Phoenix in this movie uses it OWN launcher to get it to LEO, but we could "skip" that

I guess McBrain might take a shot at it, you're quite skilled in mesh works PLEASE

Cheers,
Janez



Post Edited ( 05-09-04 15:11 )

[Xian]

Yeah, i found the Vespucci-C, too. Unfortunately this is not really what i wanted
Maybe i have to learn creating ships by myself.. And then, I still can conquer the world, enslave
all humans, etc.

Xian

[DanSteph]

DocHoliday wrote:
- DG3 on top of the launcer with the nose down to ground, so it can be docked.. I don't know how the aerodynamics
would (not) work in this case
- the DG3 INSIDE the launcher, docked to an internal docking port along the thrust axis of the launcher.
Janez

In any case you just need to create a invisible docking port (this is absolutely possible)
at the desired location, with this you can even have a DGIII on top of Ariane5 for exemple.
The only drawback is when you undock, the DG3 will go backward inside of the rocket.

Dan

[DocHoliday]

Hm.. You're right And since there is no collission detection, that's not a problem yet

I think I will do that.

[freespace2dotcom]

GRRR! I need to get good at making Spaceships, NOW!!

*sniff*

[Aqua]

Uh, as far as I know you can't have a docked ship touch the ground unless you want both of them flying off into deep space.
This is why the attached system was created.  Or has this been fixed in the beta?

[daver]

Hi
i wanted to launch the deltaglider as paylod (on the back of the buran), but: if you seperate the glider from the buran,
the glider disappears, and in the cockpit it's displayed that the pilot were dead.

is it possible to do that correct ? and what do i need to configute for that?

 This can be fixed in Buran and all the CVE-GPDS ships if there is some way I can activate the DG3 into a known state when the CVE-GPDS module releases the DG3 as a payload ( ie it changes from being just a payload mesh on the CVE-GPDS to being a live ship via oapiCreateVessel call ).

 Any ideas dan?

Cheers

Dave

[DanSteph]

Yes it should work,

The spawned DG3 will take the default parameters from what I see
it will have only "Jone Doe"  37 as pilot and no crews.

What you can do is to spawn also or "on demand" some crew Mmu to board the
new released DGIII ?

here to spawn a captain: (only a captain can take command of a ship)

char MmuName[255];

sprintf(MmuName,"DGIIIMmuP%.2i%.3i - %s",Crew.PilotAge,(int)Crew.BasePilotPulse, Crew.PilotName);
oapiCreateVessel (MmuName, "DGIIIMmu", vs);   // vs = eject direction and speed

and how to spawn a crew:

sprintf(MmuName,"DGIIIMmuC%.2i%.3i - %s",(int)Age,(int)BasePulse,(char)Name);
oapiCreateVessel (MmuName, "DGIIIMmu", vs);  

Those crew can board the DGIII (one want perhaps *eject* jone Doe ? )

PS daver: register on this forum so we can "message" you  (private messaging systeme of this forum)

Dan



Post Edited ( 05-23-04 20:30 )

[daver]

Splendid,

  Thanks Dan .

Cheers

Dave

[Oz]

Just FYI:

Vespucci was originally designed by OmegaSpace, who has since vanished from the Orbiter universe. It was adopted
by Lone Marauder, (John McCain) who did the revision to Vespucci B with the addition of the four docking ports. A
subsequent revision, Vespucci C, added an instrument panel and reworked the RCS.  Yet another version is currently
underway by Nectioch, who is adding engineering panels, a Bussard ramscoop collection system, and rotation
animation for the habitat section.

I believe it was MrBatman who requested the DGIII safe mode for long duration docked flights, although it could have
been Lone Marauder.

While Vespucci is not a launch vehicle by any stretch, it's an outstanding ship for the deep dark. The four rider ships
allow great flexibility once you arrive at your destination.

BTW, Vespucci is so freakin' HUGE, (over 800 meters length) the rider ship mass is a drop in the bucket. Symetrical
loads aren't really needed. I carry two DGIII's and a pair of Shuttle A2's, but there are others who have four different
ships around the docking collar and report no particular problem.