DGIII alpha release available part 4 (CLOSED)

[Spacingbluefrog]

Hi,

It seems I get a sound pb!
When switching from internal view to external, sounds become uggly, veeeerrrryyyy sssllllloooowww
aaaaaaaaaaand unshaappppped. Then it stays in this feature, even if landed with no events.
Is this baby too heavy for my old Geforce 2 GTS?

_______________________________________________________________________________
In space, nobody can ear you scream....

[darkvoid]

>Hi,

>It seems I get a sound pb!
>When switching from internal view to external, sounds become uggly, veeeerrrryyyy
>sssllllloooowww
>aaaaaaaaaaand unshaappppped. Then it stays in this feature, even if landed with no events.
>Author: Spacingbluefrog

I'm starting to have this problem with DGIII, especially near ISS.

My system config:
Amd 3000+
GF4 4600
1024 (DDR 400)

Maybe the DGIII is starting to become too heavy?

[Christopher Tarana]

darkvoid wrote:

> >Hi,

> I'm starting to have this problem with DGIII, especially near
> ISS.
>
> My system config:
> Amd 3000+
> GF4 4600
> 1024 (DDR 400)
>
> Maybe the DGIII is starting to become too heavy?

 Maybe YOU guys are in too much of a hurry!  I'm not having any sound issues at all.    

 Intel P2 Celeron 300 mhz
 PcChips M767v AGP Motherboard
 Win98 with DirectX 8.0
 64 megs RAM
 SiS 6326 SVGA AGP card, 8 megs Vidram.  800x600x16bit screen resolution, 1024x512 texture
 resolution.
 Cmedia Sound Pro Sound System, SB Stereo compatible. (P220, I5, D1)
 Western Digital Rodeo Hard Drive, 4 gig capacity, 1 gig free.
 Memorex 52-24-52 CD Drive
 
       Give it up for the little guys!  

           Christopher

[scpacingbluefrog]

Dear Christopher,

I dont think your answer goes in the right direction.
When I run in windows mode, 350X124X16, I get no pb.
It seems my standard are far above yours : full screen, 1280X1024X32, on a P4 1.4, 512 ram, direct x9.
So, stay humble, and don't interfer with the "real" pb.

Friendly, Malcolm.

__________________________________________________________________________________
In space, nobody can ear you complain...

[EndeavourCmdr]

Well, I have a p4 1.6 gig processer, 1024 meg ram, DirectX 9.1, full screen 1280x1024x32, with a
Geforce 4 ti 4400 128 meg card. Reporting NO problems with sound or framerate. Running win XP
pro. The only time I ever get a slow down, is when some super high res textures load for the first
time, or when MASSIVE amounts of particle effects are on the screen.

[EndeavourCmdr]

Oooh, one more thing though. Forgot to mention that I also have a Creative SB audigy sound
card....   that might be the difference right there.

[Christopher Tarana]

I dont think your answer goes in the right direction.
When I run in windows mode, 350X124X16, I get no pb.
It seems my standard are far above yours : full screen, 1280X1024X32, on a P4 1.4, 512 ram,
direct x9.
So, stay humble, and don't interfer with the "real" pb.

Friendly, Malcolm.

 Actually it goes to the heart of the problem.  You don't say what OS you are running, but you
do indicate that you're using DirectX9.  I'm going to assume that you are using WinXP, because
Win98 is unstable under DirectX9.  All the people I deal with say DirectX8.1 is the last version
that's stable under Win98.  People with faster computers are more likely to run addons like
the Hi-res planet textures that drag the system down.  They are also more likely to be running
Anti-virus software in the background and have full time DSL lines instead of 56k dial up like
mine.  Since my hardware is perfectly capable of running Orbiter and the latest Alpha of the
DG, it's up to you to see what software is running in the background and robbing your computer
of CPU cycles.  It's not a case of Orbiter, the alpha or your hardware being deficient, so that
leaves what?  Even my humble computer slows down a tad if I get a ship between Earth and
my POV, that's normal.  So I've learned not to do that.

  As far as humble goes, I've purchased three computers in my life.  The first was a C64 with all
the extras, I still have it and it works great for word processing and other stuff.  That was
the year they first came out.  In 1988 I paid $1100 for an IBM compatible XT that had a 360k
floppy, a 10 MEG HD, a CGA monitor and a real SB card with Adlib chip.  I kept that until 2001 when
I bought my current machine.  This machine will probably outlive me!    Having a small computer
doesn't bother me because it does everything I ask it to do.

    Christopher

PS, I run full screen too.  Looks better that way!  

[Wilko]

I recently upgraded to a 2.4 Ghz, 256mb RAM, 128mb GeForce 4 system running XP, and I gotta
say in Orbiter it barely makes a difference (except for running super hi-res without any problems).  
But I think I'll be ready for the more graphics intensive games

The good thing about Orbiter is you can run it on such low specs! By heart it is a simulator and
doesn't need all the fancy graphics.

[C3PO]

I've just checked again, and I do have the latest version. The wheel brakes work even if the gear
has collapsed.

I tried to make a new accent profile, but I ended up using the same amount of fuel. The autopilot
levels off, and doesn't start to turn untill Mach 0.75. This burns up all the fuel saved by the accent.
The autopilot also starts to circleize the orbit at Ecc 0.25, so I end up orbiting at about 185km.

C3PO

[DanSteph]

Thanks Jógvan,

I'll  check again about the brake...

Not so easy to do an ascent  uh ?
I recall I have do one for Mars, I had to make many try and tuning before
I succeded.. to bad I deleted it don't recall why...
If AP stop at 0.25 ECC something is wrong in your ascent.
(The AP stop when the ecc isn't anymore decreasing but increasing again)

Try to arrive at top of climb with a low vertical speed, the ascent try to null
it when ecc<0.30 but if it's too high it cannot do anything.


NEW RELEASE....  available
not many stuff here appart the new payload feature (3.5 ton also displayed in cabin)
and some bug cleared (see history)
but I wanted to release this before doing one things that may take
some time to do.

Dan

[Spacingbluefrog]

All right, all right, I apologize if I was a little hard on my answer.

I'm running in w2000 pro and SB 5.1. I've no other prog in background. And it's specific with DGIII. Full
standard install plus Orbitersound, V 04-01-30-rev2, nothing more.

With all the other install of Orbiter, I don't get any troubles with sound, and I have a lot of very high
textures, and some of the ships I use aren't the lightest.

If I put a message here, it's that I don't understand why suddenly I get this kind of troubles when I'm
not supposed to.

________________________________________________________________________________
In space, nobody can ear you scream....

[DanSteph]

The DGIII use 39 more sound (mean 39 more directx buffer)
Unfortunately while I don't have this problem it's very hard to
track. I run winamp , antivirus, all my dev program such
as photoshop, 3dmax and MSVC in same time than Orbiter in 1152x864 32 bit
with level 9 textures and I don't see any glitch.
I have some orbiter crash also while programming when I do wrong stuff
but my computer run all the day without any reboot and it still work.
I have a p4 1.7ghz 768Mo ram SB live value Xp home DX9.0.

I would at first think about a perf conflict with system configuration
(interrupt, bus , directx , hardware ? etc etc) because many low spec
system don't have any issue while some high spec that should be able
to eat all that have.

I just tried on my old win98 P400 128 mo ram Geforce Mx400 1152x864x32 DX8.1 Orbiter
run fine at a 14-37 FPS and the sound don't have any problem....
(I used exactly the same directory than my stock Orbiter install with level 9 texture
42000 star, all effect to the max etc etc)

Anyway without extended information and some try from a user that have this problem
(change resolution, driver, try another 3d card, another sound card,  intterupt (card's slot),
directx sound setting (hardware acceleration)  etc etc) and a complete report I can't do anything....

IF I can do something, because the DGIII run fine on many configuration so
I can almost say that's the code is fine (pure directX compliant code)

If it run nice on a p400 geforce2 mx and on so much system.... ???

Try at first to desactivate all other modules appart OrbiterSound (transx seem to eat a max)
and try 1152x864x32
Try also to not check "disable vertical sync"  while Orbiter will run at max speed
he may not leave place for other program.

Try last three (simple) things an feedback please.


Dan



Post Edited (02-01-04 23:31)

[Christopher Tarana]

DanSteph wrote:
>
> IF I can do something, because the DGIII run fine on many
> configuration so
> I can almost say that's the code is fine (pure directX
> compliant code)

  Wow!  Throw 3.5 tons of cargo back there and she's a beast.  I flew a sub-sonic profile from
Kennedy Space Center to Wallops Island and I could tell the difference.    Has anyone
noticed that the autopilots tend to lose thier "focus" sometimes if you go to external view or
to a panel other than the main one?  Is this an Orbiter issue?  Anyways, I thought I'd be one
of the first to say thanks to Dan for another job well done!  The cargo meshes look good and
now I'm going to take a break.  See everyone tomorrow!  

   Christopher

[Dave Grover]

>DanSteph wrote:

>I saw lately that there might be a confusion beetween
>A & B Life support button and O2 & N2 that are also labeled
>"A & B"

>Of course the O2 & N2 A & B must always be set to "auto" both
>because when one is empty it switch automatically on the other.
>(One sleep awaiting that the other who use pump is empty)

>It's the Life support button (fan, heating etc etc) A or B that must be turned
>off because in contrary of what happen with the tank when they are ON
>they run both. There is two system because of safety it would be bad
>to have both goes out because they runned too long time.
>At critical flight phase they must be both ON because those phase
>doesn't last too long and it's a safety issue to have one system that
>can take immediately the relay without any humain intervention.

>Anyway I don't know how to label the sys-check reminder to be clear,
>it should be a only one short line... any idea ?

>Dan

Dan, this is a perfectly understandable explanation.  I asked whether this was a bug or a feature.  
This is obviously a feature that makes perfect sense.  All it might be is a "documentation" issue,
and there isn't any of that yet.  

Well, I will now go see if I can get back to the Cape without burning up.  This would be really bad
form to do today, as it is the first anniversary of the Columbia disaster (it's still the Feb 1 in the
USA) , as well as my 48th birthday.  I will let you know later.

I will download the latest version first.

Grover

[reekchaa]

Grover,
My daughter's Birthday is today, too.  Not a good thing when a disaster falls on your birthday, eh?  
Hope it was a good one.  Cake & Kids... Mmmmm.  >Ready to check out Payloads!

[Dave Grover]

reekchaa wrote:

> Grover,
> My daughter's Birthday is today, too.  Not a good thing when a
> disaster falls on your birthday, eh?  
> Hope it was a good one.  Cake & Kids... Mmmmm.

Yes, Reekchaa, it is nasty when a disaster falls on your birthday.    Tell your daughter I
said, "Happy Birthday!"

Okay, guys.  How do you re-enter this thing without burning up.  I have burned up 3 times
today.    This isn't the way I want to remember "Columbia".  I am following the docs for the
DGII.  Yes, I am reducing weight to 19 tons.  40 degree AOA.  It appears that the ship comes down
short following those parameters.  Burn at distance 16.55M.  Angle is 1.12.  When the
speed gets down to Mach 7ish or so, the angle of descent gets quite dramatically steeper.  It was
positively on its way to "stone-like".  My response was to lower the angle-of-attack to 25
degrees.  Suddenly, I am climbing at 250 mps!  8o  I could not find an angle-of-attack, which kept a
decent angle of descent.  When I was at 25 degrees the DGIII climbed dramatically  . . .  at 30
degrees it fell sort of like a stone.  When I attempted to take manual control at Mach 6, I burned
up.  This was the last time.  

Of course, the above is at least partially caused by the latest Orbiter's atmospheric modeling.  I
could also be doing something, uh, less than intelligent.

Dan, I think we need to have finer control over our angle-of-attack during re-entry.  How about
giving us 1 degree resolution by using the Ctrl key with the current controls?  It was kind of
obvious that the wings were stalled at 30 degrees AOA and not at 25 AOA.  I think we need the
finer resolution at the lower Mach numbers (below Mach 10, anyway) to be able to "ride the edge"
better, and we certainly can't do it manually with current RCS power.  FYI:  At 0 AOA, and Mach 6,
the DGIII fell like a stone too.

I am going to go frustrate myself one more time with the "Docked to ISS" scenario and pay better
attention.  I will make edits to whatever I have incorrect above.

Grover (Meteor Muppet!)



Post Edited (02-02-04 08:12)

[Spets]

The reentry SHOULD work out pretty well, but then again Dan added drag to the spaceship in a
recent build.. that probably threw the whole procedure out the window. I personally gave up on
doing re-entry, because I can't hold re-entry autopilot at 10x time acceleration, which sucks. Finer
control over AoA would definitely help.

But on the good side if you are falling short, hopping back upwards at 250 m/s should do plenty to
lengthen your re-entry! I guess the glider just has a very abrupt lift/stall edge.. if the curve could
be smoothed out better, that would help. as it is right now, you pitch down 5 degrees and wham,
you get full lift and upwards you go.. passengers turned to puddles on the floor.

another suggestion, but this depends on the temperature. having pitch at 0 AoA usually results in
a decent.. the goal is to have 35-45 AoA during the "hot" part of re-entry, and then switch to 0-10
AoA for the actual glide back to the base. it should give you longer flight time than creating all that
drag at 40 AoA. I guess in your case 25 degrees AoA turned right into liftoff mode!

[DanSteph]

Again since the new release of Orbiter I think the whole things is broken
I took the calculation from the stock DG and thought at first they
where well done. This isn't the case at all, almost 0 drag at high speed
and massive amount of drag at low speed, (they corrected in the patch the fact
that there was no drag at all added for AOA><0)

This should be reworked in the DGIII but didn't for yet as this is a big work....
at each modif you must do almost a complete reentry wich take time.

spets: For 10x time, the reentry is a master piece of the flight with an intense
atmosphere I wonder why you want to speed it up ? you can accelerate
the time until 100-120km altitude but after its really dangerous.
the whole reentry must take 5-10 mn only

Dave: For now the reentry should work taken that you don't touch anything
it doesn't work at all like in DGII again where you can alter your trajectory,
but again, the math behind are messed and this should be reworked.

Dan
PS: of course the numbers of the DGII tutorial for reentry should be forgotten for now, go straight, don't touch anything and see at wich distance you must deorbit... again , this is a workaround for now.

[Dave Grover]

Hey, what do you know!  I survived!  My DGIII is on the runway at KSC in safe-mode.

The passengers threw me a blanket party on the tarmac and said they won't fly with me again.  
But, I guess that beats a firing squad.  

How did I do this?  I flew the profile from the DGII docs and left the ship alone at 40 AOA until my
speed dropped to Mach 3.  It was difficult!  I wanted to mess with it, so bad!  LOL!  I had to do an
airplane-like cruise for 500 kilometers or so, because I was offline from the Cape, not very short.  
Max Temp was 2022c, at Mach 12, 44.78k altitude, and slope of -2.1.  8)

The trim controls work well.  My only comment is that I think the trim gauge is backwards.  When
you feed in positive trim the marker should be above the middle, not below it.  Maybe European
aircraft are different?

I really like the HSI MFD, this is the first time I have used it.  I flew an ILS approach to Runway 33
in the middle of the night!  Yeah!

Dan, the venting gases after landing are COOL!  Is this intended?  Once I shutdown the ship they
stopped.

Dan, the only "serious" problem I found were "G spikes" at 10x Time Warp.  This was why I
received the blanket party.  20.38 Gs!  WOW!  By the way, if you haven't heard the term,
a "blanket party" is where a bunch of people take someone else, throw a blanket over them, and
beat on them for a while.  The passengers were just getting even.    This only happened at 10x
warp.

I still would like the 1 degree resolution for AOA, like I asked for above.

Grover (Meteor Muppet)

[Dave Grover]

Dan,

I was writing my post when you posted yours.

By the way, the DGIII ROCKS!  From one guitarist to another.  

I love it, even if it scares me sometimes.  LOL!

Grover

[DanSteph]

Author: Dave Grover
Date:   02-02-04 08:50
Hey, what do you know! I survived! My DGIII is on the runway at KSC in safe-mode.

Congrat !
But I hope the ticket price wasn't too expensive for them....
Did they even knew that you are still student pilot on the DGIII ?

the venting gases after landing are COOL! Is this intended? Once I shutdown the ship they
stopped.

Sure the only things that aren't intended are bug

I'll rework the reentry later, now I'm on another mesh "visual goodies"

Dan

[Krytom]

DanSteph

Newest DG3 rocks.

In the DG3 config program it has a little bit on Additional Crew. I was just wondering if this was
going to be implemented and if so what would it mean?

Krytom

[mgka]

Looks like the interface is designed to consider larger ships. Perhaps a cargo version with a pilot
and payload officer, a larger spaceliner with 50 passengers and a full flight crew, a science vessel
that carries cartographers, geologists, etc...

All this would be in the distant future, but it would definitely be cool to have other futuristic ships
that are up to the DGIII's standards.

[DanSteph]

Dave, I think  there is a malfunction with the AE35 hardware.
Perhaps you must go check outside ?
No need for a spacesuite I'll handle everything..... (tiouiiii tiouiiiii)





(antenna fully animated, not textured and no door for yet , work in progress)



Dan
"fun stuff I test the animation with joystick so I can move the
antena in all direction

[DanSteph]

The additionnal crew was done for the "secret project" (for those that follow
for now it's discared but who know ?

Dan