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Author Topic: More "crash reasons"  (Read 2215 times)

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Matt

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04 January 2004, 15:48:05
Planet landings crash detection

Hi Dan,

how much work would it be to modifiy the current DG-2 code to get more
"crash-reasons" (= crew/pilot dead)? What i mean is: at the moment crew and
pilot can die because of "too high g" or "no more oxygen" or "too high vertical
sinkrate" or "open doors when in space". Isn´t it  possible to use other
available parameters for "crash-detection"(crew dead scenario) also like
1. Horizontal speed at touch down greater than...(250km/h ?)
2. Landing gear at touch not down
3. Bankaxis at touch down greater than...let´s say 5 degrees
4. Pitchaxis at touch down greater than... let´s say 15 degrees  
I like it to have to fly precisely :-)

Matt



Offline DanSteph

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Reply #1 - 04 January 2004, 17:57:39
Hello Matt,

It recall me a story:
"Early in 1944, Sergeant Nicholas Alkemade (21) was the rear gunner in a Lancaster bomber, flying
at 18,000 feet over Berlin. A burst from a night-fighter set the bomber on fire. He fired back and hit
the attacker. Getting out of the turret, he found his parachute burning. With two alternatives, he
chose to get away from the heat by jumping to his death. The night was very cold, and he blacked
out as he fell.
Then he awoke with surprise, saw stars through the trees, and thought "Jesus Christ! I'm alive."
At perhaps 120 mph, he had crashed through young pine trees, into deep snow."

the lucky guy:


What I mean is that a bank of even 30 degree does not mean
death for crew all the time it depend if the wing will touch, if the plane
will spine , if something broke and how the accident will evovle.

Setting death for a fixed bank, pitch or speed would be a bit rough.
Of course I can set death for a bank of 45° but who land with a bank like that ? :)

Anyway your idea of airspeed would be cool and let me think to something:
if landing speed more than 250km/h or to high vertical/pitch/bank=retract instantly gear.
I find retracting gear mor appealing than just make the crew roughly dying ..
what you think ?

That would be ***easy*** to do I will keep this one in sight.

a good idea also for a futur development:
A log book that show you how many crew you carried from a location to another,
if all went well, how was the landing etc etc... perhaps also earning money
or point. So a bad landing can soutract some points/money etc etc.

Dan


Matt

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Reply #2 - 04 January 2004, 23:34:21
Hi Dan,

Setting death for a fixed bank, pitch or speed would be a bit rough.
Of course I can set death for a bank of 45° but who land with a bank like that ?

All the rookies which are trying to hit the runway :-))

Anyway your idea of airspeed would be cool and let me think to something:
if landing speed more than 250km/h or to high vertical/pitch/bank=retract instantly gear.
I find retracting gear mor appealing than just make the crew roughly dying ..
what you think ?

Yeah! Do it!

That would be ***easy*** to do I will keep this one in sight.

a good idea also for a futur development:
A log book that show you how many crew you carried from a location to another,
if all went well, how was the landing etc etc... perhaps also earning money
or point. So a bad landing can soutract some points/money etc etc.

Really great! Gives more challenge and keeps the motivation up.

Matt


Offline ENS2018

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Reply #3 - 07 January 2004, 04:18:09
Hey,

Just wanted to put in my two cents.

I wanted to say that while it sounds like a good idea to have death upon too rough of a landing,
the idea of dying from having the gear up while landing doesn't seem that appealing.  After all,
there is such a thing as a belly landing in an emergency.

Maybe it would be better to register g-force on impact?  I mean, it's not hitting the ground that
would kill everyone, its how HARD you hit the ground.

In my opinion, I like the idea of being able to do a belly landing in the event of a (mock) failure.

Dan Wrote:
"Anyway your idea of airspeed would be cool and let me think to something:
if landing speed more than 250km/h or to high vertical/pitch/bank=retract instantly gear."

As for this, I think you should think carefully before implementing this feature.  First, it wouldn't be
very helpful to be on short final, mess up a bit, and have the gear raise suddenly.  An alititude may
work, but for bank/pitch it may be possible to have them raise themmselves while taxing with
hover.  An alternative may be to do something like, if you're too fast with the gear down, then Hyd
Pressure fails, therefore gear no longer work...or something to that effect.

Anyway, just wanted to put in my two cents as I said. :)

I do like that idea about points for how well you fly, I've seen similar programs to this for Flight
Simulator (BlackBox and FSMaintanence).  They work really well, and help you train yourself to fly
within limits.

Ok, I've said enough, afraid I'm rambling now :friend:

Later,
Tony



Offline DanSteph

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Reply #4 - 07 January 2004, 05:45:29
Hi Tony,

The G impact force is already logged and can lead to death for crew if
to great (20m/s vertical = 72kmh)

The idea is to retract gear if more than 250 m/s (which I recall
make 900kmh) at impact with ground so you are in case
of a belly landing but the crew won't suffer any injury, just that
your gear didn't resist such a ground speed (vibration etc etc)

The goal with all those limitation is to have a bad result when you outpass
the limitation, in this case a belly landing sound good to me.

Well you can still LAND at 890kmh :)

How well 5am perhaps I'm off ? (bad habit to read post to fast)

Dan


Offline MattNW

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Reply #5 - 11 January 2004, 01:24:13
"a good idea also for a futur development:
A log book that show you how many crew you carried from a location to another,
if all went well, how was the landing etc etc... perhaps also earning money
or point. So a bad landing can soutract some points/money etc etc."

A log book would be nice (not essential) but I'd rather skip the money thing. That makes Orbiter
and the DG II more of a game than a simulator. A bad landing results in a crash or damage/injury.
That's enough for me.

Simulators tend to be more open ended than games. There's an intrinsic satisfaction you get from
such an endevor. Adding money earned causes one to loose focus on that intrinsic value. Besides
Orbiter has something similar to that if you wish. It's called fuel. In space flight fuel is more
valuable than money because if you are in a decaying orbit with only 30 minutes left before you
burn up in the atmosphere and no fuel to adjust that orbit then all the money in the world isn't
going to do you one bit of good. :)

That's what's great about Orbiter and the DG II only adds to that by giving consequences such as
burning up. It's the satisfaction of a perfect launch, rondezvous and docking followed by a safe
reentry and landing right on the runway that is the pay off.

« Last Edit: 11 January 2004, 01:24:13 by MattNW »