[Closed] beta3 of CTV-ATV

[simcosmos]

Salut no matter:

Sorry for posting again here (I'm not in beta team) but about the guidance problems and the CTV-LEO4-ISS.txt (in
Config\W-Ariane5), from a previous post:

(...)
545=pitch(-5,0,30)
556=PlaySound(Sound\CTV\Orbite1.wav)
565=pitch(0,0,10)
565=engine(0,0,5)
570=engine(0,0,15)
580=jettison()
(...)

Please see that...

545s + 30s = 575s

... but you are adding next another pitch command AND killing the engine *before* those 575s are reached, with the lines:

565=pitch(0,0,10)
565=engine(0,0,5)


The shutdown command should perhaps be better to be implemented as something like:

engine(100,0,3)
(and assigned with a stable pitch attitude already started / achieved)

And, *after* that, maybe better to also assign yet another stable pitch command.
Just as a generic example (numbers might need to be adjusted to achieve desired injection goals):

(...)
545=pitch(-5,0,20)
556=PlaySound(Sound\CTV\Orbite1.wav)
565=pitch(0,0,10)
566=engine(100,0,3)
569= engine(0,0,1)
575=pitch(0,0,10)
580=jettison()

Not sure if this would work, would have to test / compare with guidances that have in the archives
(if wanting, I can try to give a quick look at your file / this specific topic, but only in the weekend)

António


PS: just curious but were you able to find a thrust curve for Ariane's SRB? Asking this because if using a maximum thrust
value for the SRB's nominal burn duration (~130s) you might end up with an overpowered launcher (unless, instead of using a
thrust curve, you use some kind of average thrust number for such SRB's burn duration or unless you add some kind of
'ballast' to the SRB's empty mass - but please have in mind that I do not know what numbers are you currently using neither
what are your implementation strategy / guidelines / assumptions: these are just small side suggestions, depending of how far you wish to go with a realistic performance implementation vs a few generic dll constraints). Also note that if using a thrust curve (or else the maximum thrust without empty mass ballast), the BurnTime to be inserted in a multistage.INI should NOT be the operational burn time of the SRB.



Message modifié ( 21-09-2007 13:31 )

[siriusfett]

in French dsl

Quand je me dirige vers la lune avec l'ATV2, et que j'accélère le temps a X10000, orbiter saccade sévèrement et à X100000 ,
c'est souvent le crash, curieusement avec le CTV il n'y a aucun problème   la fluidité reste nickel. Le problème
semble lié à la famille des ATV, car si je charge un scn pour le lancement de l'ATV ou de l'ATV2 et que j'accélère le temps
pour attendre un alignement sur MFD MAP le problème survient; par contre aucun problème avec le CTV !!!

Enfaite jusqu'à X1000 ça va, après ça se gatte.
Bon ça reste un problème mineur vu qu'il n'est pas prévu de lancement vers Jupiter

[no matter]

Fearless with the indications that simcosos has posted, I think your problem will get fixed soon.

Thanks a lot, simcosmos.

Siriusfett, thanks for the suggestion.

Le problème semble lié à la famille des ATV, car si je charge un scn pour le lancement de l'ATV ou de l'ATV2 et
que j'accélère le temps pour attendre un alignement sur MFD MAP le problème survient;

No, you can't say it is related to the ATV class, no ATV is present since ariane5 is a multistage2 launcher, the ATV class
does not exist before jettison. I al investigating on this and I am trying to reprduce.

[siriusfett]

no matter a écrit:

Le problème semble lié à la famille des ATV, car si je charge un scn pour le lancement de l'ATV ou de l'ATV2 et
que j'accélère le temps pour attendre un alignement sur MFD MAP le problème survient;

No, you can't say it is related to the ATV class, no ATV is present since ariane5 is a multistage2 launcher, the ATV class
does not exist before jettison. I al investigating on this and I am trying to reprduce.

[/quote]

Euh, yes it is exact



Message modifié ( 21-09-2007 14:40 )

[Fearless]

no matter wrote:
Fearless with the indications that simcosos has posted, I think your problem will get fixed soon.

Thanks a lot, simcosmos.

Thank you all.

[no matter]

PS: just curious but were you able to find a thrust curve for Ariane's SRB? Asking this because if using a
maximum thrust value for the SRB's nominal burn duration (~130s) you might end up with an overpowered launcher
(unless, instead of using a thrust curve, you use some kind of average thrust number for such SRB's burn duration or
unless you add some kind of 'ballast' to the SRB's empty mass - but please have in mind that I do not know what
numbers are you currently using neither what are your implementation strategy / guidelines / assumptions: these are
just small side suggestions, depending of how far you wish to go with a realistic performance implementation vs a few
generic dll constraints). Also note that if using a thrust curve (or else the maximum thrust without empty mass
ballast), the BurnTime to be inserted in a multistage.INI should NOT be the operational burn time of the SRB.

No, I can't find a good thrust curve. I know that real datas gives an overpowered Ariane, the only thing I did is putting
the average between thrust power in atmosphere and thrust power in vacuum for the total thrust amount of the 1st
stage. Can't remember if I have done this for the boosters too.

The rocket seems to be too powerfull even with that modification (the boosters separate at about 70km, the reals
separate at 55-60km).

As the CTV is a little futuristic, I think the overpowered Ariane5 is a good thing so for CTV/ATV2 launches I use the real
datas from arianespace.

Ariane5 is not very realistic
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Siriusfett, I can't reproduce the x100000 bug, no lag at x10000.

[Fearless]

Funny though,  I have no problems with LEO6

[siriusfett]

Siriusfett, I can't reproduce the x100000 bug, no lag at x10000.

They is curious, I am however on a clean install...

I will do another of them to see!

[no matter]

Funny though, I have no problems with LEO6

It is weird as both guidances have the same error
545=pitch(-5,0,30)
565=engine(0,0,5)

May be it is the multiple "engine=" command used that gives the spin problem (I use multiple "engine=" because after
beeing jettisoned the last stage will ignite and we don't want that).

I am working on this but please note that I am "blind" on this bug, no spin at all at home.

[Pagir]

no matter a écrit:
[...]

I am working on this but please note that I am "blind" on this bug, no spin at all at home.

It happens on my computer (not everytime) if I use x10 acceleration during ascent (over 40km alt).

Maybe if you use time acc. it will induce the bug?

Pagir

[no matter]

Good point Pagir, x10 is not recommended while launching but it should be a good way to detect multistage errors.

[no matter]

Spin occurs at x10, thanks Pagir

I will try all the solution I have in mind (+ simcosmos ones) at x10.



Message modifié ( 21-09-2007 15:50 )

[no matter]

Ok, no spin (tested at x10) with this guidance file:

Code: [Select]

-79=PlaySound(Sound\CTV\Radio2.wav)
-21=PlaySound(Sound\CTV\Lancement.wav)
0=engine(0,100,7)
10=roll(3,90,36.5,80,1)
30=pitch(83,30,60)
90=pitch(30,20,30)
120=pitch(20,20,20)
138=PlaySound(Sound\CTV\Sep1.wav)
140=pitch(20,20,20)
160=pitch(20,20,40)
177=fairing()
200=pitch(20,15,30)
230=pitch(15,15,110)
340=pitch(15,25,5)
345=pitch(25,25,130)
475=pitch(25,0,15)
490=pitch(0,0,40)
530=pitch(0,-5,10)
540=pitch(-5,-5,5)
545=pitch(-5,0,19)
556=PlaySound(Sound\CTV\Orbite1.wav)
564=pitch(0,0,10)
565=engine(100,0,3)
568=engine(0,0,15)
574=pitch(0,0,15)
580=jettison()



Message modifié ( 21-09-2007 17:03 )

[Pagir]

no matter a écrit:
[...]

Le problème semble lié à la famille des ATV, car si je charge un scn pour le lancement de l'ATV ou de l'ATV2 et
que j'accélère le temps pour attendre un alignement sur MFD MAP le problème survient;

No, you can't say it is related to the ATV class, no ATV is present since ariane5 is a multistage2 launcher, the ATV
class
does not exist before jettison. I al investigating on this and I am trying to reprduce.

I can reproduce Siriusfleet's bug with the ATV2 bound for the moon. I know it's not related to the autopilot. It happen
with the last stage of Ariane and when the ATV jettison the Ariane (or Ariane jettison ATV, anyway...). I don't know if
it happen sooner.

Testing.

Pagir

[Pagir]

Pretty proud of myself on this one!

Ok, the "bug" is Zl3arm related: After the launch of the ATV, you have the shut down the Stream on the Cable at
Kourou. (with "0" or "del" the keypad.)

I know, I know...

Pagir

[no matter]

I have tested this situation and no ctd.
I hope you are not jettisoning the ATV at x10000, are you?

[Pagir]

no matter a écrit:
I have tested this situation and no ctd.
I hope you are not jettisoning the ATV at x10000, are you?

Sorry, Are you talkin' to me?

If you're talking about de Sirius' bug, there's no CTD involved. Only major lag at 10 000 and 100 000. I'm sure if you
have a good machine and a good graphic card it won't happen.

Otherwise, as I stated before, shutting down the stream of the zl3arms solve the thing.

Pagir

[no matter]

At x100000 sirius reported a ctd on his computer. I should have quoted his remark >_<

Otherwise, as I stated before, shutting down the stream of the zl3arms solve the thing.

Oh, I was on the third page of the topic I have missed your post related to zl3.
Ok, I think it is zl3arm that induce the problem, thanks for finding that!

Can you confirm siriusfett?



Message modifié ( 21-09-2007 17:47 )

[siriusfett]

In french dsl

J'ai refait une install propre sans installer CSG automatique et chez moi le problème persiste, cela ne se produit qu'avec
l'ATV et ATV2. Pour les crashs, ils ne surviennent que si je reste trop longtemps à X100000  (le programme ne répond plus...)

Je ne rencontre aucun problème avec le CTV ou tout autre spacecraft...

Ma config:

Core duo 4300 (2x1.8 )
Geforce 7950GT
ram 2x1024 ddr2 6400



Message modifié ( 21-09-2007 18:54 )

[no matter]

I can't reproduce the ctd.
 
PS: x100000 is deactivated on the CTV. It is a security, O2 tank level is decreasing very fast in x100000.

[siriusfett]

Eureka

The problem is with "particle streams"



In remove more problem...
even by choosing the .bat texture the problem persists.



Message modifié ( 21-09-2007 19:12 )

[no matter]

Ah, never, never, never, never use orbiter's autopilots (prograde-hlevel etc) at more than x1 if particle stream present
I would  even say never ignite an engine at more than x1, it is fps dependant, accuracy in your trajectory is directly
affected by the fps so the more fast you warp, the more inaccuracy you get.

Instead of disabling all the particle streams in the launchpad, just use ATV texture.bat located in the module folder (it
will enable rcs exhaust texture and disable the stream for the ATV).



Message modifié ( 21-09-2007 19:34 )

[siriusfett]

In french

Je ne suis pas sur d'avoir tout compris no matter, néanmoins dans le peu que j'ai compris, je ne voie pas trop le problème,
quand je suis sur une trajectoire d'interception avec la lune mon spacecraft ne produit aucun jets de particules de
plus si je choisie les fichiers bat "texture" le problème demeure, de plus le CTV qui utilise les mêmes
particules je pense, ne me pose aucun problème...



Message modifié ( 21-09-2007 23:59 )

[no matter]

It is extremely weird that the problem persists on textures models as they don't have any particle streams while it is
fixed if you disable the streams in the launchpad. I don't really know what's happening on your PC

I think I can't do much for that problem

The same in french (siriusfett reported a freeze on the ATV if time acceleration is x100000):
C'est extrêmement bizarre que le problème persiste sur les modèles sans particle streams alors que si tu décoche les particle streams dans le launchpad, le problème se règle. Je ne sais vraiment pas ce qu'il se passe

J'ai bien peur de ne pas pouvoir faire beaucoup plus



Message modifié ( 21-09-2007 19:51 )

[Pagir]

Euh... je veux pas m'imposer, Sirius... je l'ai déjà dit en anglais,

mais as-tu mis à 0 le jet de particule du zl3arms de Kourou?

On l'actionne avec les hovers.

Si ça règle le problème en enlevant particule stream du module, c'est que ça règle le cas des particules du bras à
Kourou. Le problème est là, faut pas chercher de midi à quatorze heures!!!

En détail, focus sur le bras de zl3arm, puis hovers à zéro. Ça va être ok après, garanti!

Pagi