Am I able to import existing ships from other games into orbiter???

[Mauiman]

I am wondering if I can get some ships from a game called Earth and Beyond into orbiter. And if there is a way to do so, then
somebody please tell me how to do such because I really want to know how to do such.

End of line

[StarLost]

Not directly. If the program that was used to produce them has an exporter to Orbiter's proprietary msh format, sure.
Otherwise, for example, you would have to take a model produced in 3dsMax, export the model to msh throught the max2msh
exporter and voila.

There are exporters for Blender, Lightwave, TrueSpace, Maya, Anim8tor, ...

Take a walk through OrbitHanger. You'll find many craft that came from elsewhere. It's just not a simple process.

In reality, the process is to much to explain here. Take a look at the manuals in the OrbiterSDK.

[freespace2dotcom]

amen to that.

It just isn't simple..

I tried and mostly gave up on trying to convert freespace ships into orbiter, though if I just had perfect instructions on
how to solve all the problems I got AFTER I converted them I'd probably own half the solar system in OSN right now.
(haha! )

anyways, you have to find the files for the ships you want to convert (meshes, textures, etc) and find out what format
they are actually in. In my particular case, the files were all in one big compressed archive, had a slightly difficult to
figure out name system, and to top it off, had a proprietary format for the files, which I had to convert to a more
universal format (3ds) and from there to orbiter's format.  I can't tell you what to do because I didn't get much
progress after that...

anyways, just have a look at it, and dob't pull all your hair out in one go.

[xwingace20]

I have two things to say about this, first shouldn't this thread be in the add-ons fourm and also post it in the main
orbiter fourm and see what answers you get their too.

[oli_chose123]

the add-on forum is for dan's add-ons

[StarLost]

One of the beauties of this forum is that it tends to be more civil, and frankly the discussion more fun, than is frequently
the case on the M6 Orbiter Forums (forii?). Most of us here do have a presence there, anyway. And yes, the addons forum here
is supposed to be for Dan's addons specifically (a method of discussion I wish more ship authors would employ).

Importing models: here is the loose process.

It is better if you have access to the model creation file. Then you have to change its coordinate system to match Orbiter's
coordinate system (one of the problems using 3dsMax is that designers frequently forget this step). Of course, recheck all
textures and materials because Orbiter does not support multimaterials or multiple layers (you have to flatten them). Export
the result into Orbiters mesh format and test. Check to make sure all normals and vertices came out correct.

If you just have access to the dds files, you must convert them to a form that the model programs and graphics programs can
understand. Fortunately there are many tools available to do just that. Once converted, load them into your modeling program
and proceed as before.

That is just for the visual aspects of the vessel. Then you have to write the dll file to control the vessels behaviour in
Orbiter. This can be relatively simple, by merely using one for another ship already in Orbiter (review how to set ship's
parameters in Orbiter config files). Better behaviour control is by rewriting the dll file for the model. For this, you need
a C++ compiler and Orbiter's SDK with its library files. (Orbiter and its libraries are written in Visual C++ 6).

As you can see, it is a time consuming process and there are a multiple of choices and directions for you to go in. In
general, you will use a minimum of five different programming and image manipulation tools.

While I haven't done it myself (my own ego requires I do my own, not use someone else's work), I would imagine that it would
take as long to convert a model from another game as it would be to start from scratch in Orbiter. Bear in mind that some
ships in Orbiter have a very long design cycle and are team efforts. David413 and Donamy's efforts in the Shuttle 3.8 series
immediately comes to mind.

This has been a very brief description of the process. Don't let it put you off. It can be a lot of fun and a very good
learning process, which is what Orbiter is all about, really.



If you do wish to transfer a ship from another game, ensure that you handle all legal aspects correctly. Many models and designs are copyrighted. You must have permission of the author or copyright holder  before you begin the process. Do not assume that a model is in the public domain. Carefully read all licencing details.



Post Edited ( 08-05-05 22:12 )

[Simonpro]

Also, bear in mind that the files are probably covered by copyright laws, not a really big issue for something like
Orbiter, but certain types tend to get all flustered over it

[StarLost]

Yeah, while some countries' national sport is futbol, and my own country's national sport is lacrosse (surprise, its not
hockey!!), some countries' its litigation. Best not to tempt the evil eye ... or a goldarned barrister/solicitor.

[Simonpro]

Hehe.

[Mauiman]

Well what if you wanted to create your ship from scratch? is there any free programs out there that will allow you to do such?

[StarLost]

Well, I probably shouldn't be doing this 'cause my software cost me mucho dinero, but, yes there is free software for you to
practice with.

From a ship modeller's point of view, we'll start with the 3d modelling programs. Perhaps the best here is gmax (the lighter
version of 3d max, but be warned they have announced that they will be discontinuing support for it).  Other than that is
Anim8tor, Blender, Milkshape. Image manipulation programs are ubiquitous. You will want one that can handle layers so take a
look at GIMP or Paint.NET.

For any of your modelling programs, you will probably need an importer/exporter to handle Orbiter's msh format. Take a look
in the tools section of Simcosmos site, or ask at M6 OrbiterSDK forum. The GMax/3dMax one can be fount at MindBlast's site.

If you want to take a stab at writing your own ship dll, you will need a C++ compiler. Mixing libraries and compilers can be
an exercise in frustration, and I am not up on gratis copies of a C++ compiler. However, Daver (Dave Rowbotham), one of the
resident programming gurus in Orbiter space, put together a pretty good comparison of what was available. You should find it
over on M6.

You don't necessarily have to make a ship dll to control your vessel. Vinka has produced a couple of packages that you can
take advantage of: spacecraft2.dll and multistage2.dll. With these as part of your package (and installed in your default
Orbiter directory) all you need do is write an ini file for your vessel. Vinka has provided samples and documentation to help
you.

A simple text editor will take care of the rest for you, writing config files (.cfg) and scenario files (.scn). Because of
the extra file extensions (and because I use it to write my own C++ programs) I prefer to use Crimson Editor.

Now the real warning, cause I paid for the stuff I use. Sometimes freebie programs don't provide all the bells and whistles
and the help you really need. Like anything else in this life, you get what you pay for. Have a look at the free stuff, give
it a try, but consider making an investment in your modelling future.

You are about to embark on a sometimes frustrating hobby. But it's lots of fun learning and playing. Hope you enjoy it.

An addendum has occurred to me. No matter what you do with modelling and/or programming a new ship, you must pay attention to ensuring that your new addon is properly documented.  At the very minimum a decent "readme" file must be included. Gene Harm (Harmsway) posted a few good points about such documentation in the M6 Addons Forum. I highly recommend that you read it. I presonally prefer pdf files for my documentation, though many others prefer html, or Word doc files. If you are truly ambitious, you can prepare help files for your addon. These will be in the form of either html files or chm files. There are several freebie editors to help you.

Remember, whenever you are looking at freebie software or topics ... Google is your friend.



Post Edited ( 11-19-05 06:32 )

[Mauiman]

Are there any good tutorials out there for Blender? I have got the program and I now need a good tutorial to make
some good star ships.