[off-topic] Metric vs Imperial

[Atom]

Ok, I'm taking it upon myself to empty all of the other threads off this debate. Anymore essays on this subject go in here.
(You hear that Freespace, and you Doc.)

[DanSteph]

Oh the [off topic] tag is not necessary anymore in this forum... I mean... rules changed,
now you must put it when you post something Orbiter related

Nhaaa just jocking keep going peoples

Dan

[Atom]

It's just that this topic has spread to at least three other threads. I'm just trying to stop the...errr...'spread'. If you
could slip in a word to Martin for the new release, then Orbiter might be more of a popular subject.

Hehe. Just joking.

[DanSteph]

true... there is not much excitings news about Orbiter those last time...
appart perhaps new stunning add-ons ? space elevator made litle score
here and I bet (but I'm not sure) that perhaps we miss also some others
nice stuffs ?

Janez, I know your lurking a lot the official forum, any new stunning things ?

oh and to stay on-topic: I'm fully in favor of metric system (pray that freespace DON'T see
this thread otherwise the line counter will break again

Ps: damn whatewer we do we are always off-topic even in the off-topic thread.
it's our destiny.. lucke.... you must accept this...

Dan



Post Edited ( 08-12-04 03:31 )

[reekchaa]

Yes, Luke... also... I am your Father!  [/i]  ...What WAS the topic again?  Oh yeah... Treatments for Impotence

[AphelionHellion]

Metric is an unrealistic, cumbersome system foisted upon the world by effeminate eggheads who never had to go
outside and try to put it into practice!

Imperial is a needlessly complicated, arbitrary and obsolete system only supported by hide-bound nationalists
who are too lazy to learn Metric!





*sites back and watches the flames ignite*  

[freespace2dotcom]

I think it has gone a bit far...  And AH just isn't helping....

I've decided that I'm going to come up with my own system of measurement.

I'm going to call it "tumultric"

It's going to be so much better than metric that it will replace it and force all the european countries to change their
systems once again.

That should keep the USA traditional for at least another 200 years

[DocHoliday]

hehe, I just heard yesterday that United States of America is forcing all the countries in the world to upgrade their
password with biometric information if they want to enter the US. This sounds pretty straight forward. But for a
country to allow any citizen to go to the US, they must issue NEW passwords for everyone. This will be probably the
4th time we change passwords in this country and I didn't even ask for it.

Now, I have nothing against upgrading the passwords as such, BUT I hate the fact that you are forced to do it, by
some overgrown country. It just rubs me the wrong way, as Free would put it.

[DocHoliday]

About the main forum.. Let's see..
There's a couple of projects that deal with making high-res textures for KSC launch pads and it really looks nice. Then
there is Air Orbiter, that sort of pulls some development (Jarvis Island Launch Facility, deeps space cargo haulers and
a big launcher - the last I heard McBrain's Unilauncher was to be used).

Then there is the new doradus: http://orbit.m6.net/v2/read.asp?id=17660
There was also a space cargo containers project, you get all the .. known corporate logos on them and you stick
them on any large space transport.

There is one thread where people actually tell eachother what they are working on, so check it out:
http://orbit.m6.net/v2/read.asp?id=17549

[freespace2dotcom]

Well, Personally, I think that that biocrap stuff is just that. crap. I've known about it for quite a few months now.
Funny thing is that people don't complain until after it's enforced. Usually due to the fact that the politicians do a
great job of keeping things quiet until it's time.

Eventually all americans will have to have it too, if that wasn't already part of the agreement. Next thing you know,
they'll tell you that they need your soul.... I'm strictly against that stuff too, but it's in the name of terror, so the
people go along... BS if you ever ask me.

I want to get a passport for myself "just in case." But I hope I can get an old one, but with my luck, the rest of the
world will want to do the same to me, which is fair considering, but it just sucks.

[DocHoliday]

It's really depressive. Next thing will be a microchip in your head...

In the end though one has to decide how to live. Be a rebel on the fringes or just get with the program, become
successful, so you will be in a position to change something. Of course by the time you are there, you will have
forgotten why you went there in the first place....

[freespace2dotcom]

A microchip in your right forearm is also permissible, as it, along with the forehead, are spots of the body capable of
recharging batteries for microchips.

And in the endgame, I think you will have to be with the system, or against it. no living in the wilderness though,
they've got satelites to find you and drag you in. And if you don't take it, you will be labeled as a terrorist and
dispatched as such,

kinda sucky..

Of course that's just my opinion, but I really think it's getting there. and the more actions like this are made, it makes
it more obvious that the net to surround the people of the world is nearly in place.

But when the people wake up, I fear it will be too late.

dammit, you got me talking politics again...

[AphelionHellion]

DocHoliday: What password? In which countries do people have government passwords?
I'm confused. Or clueless. Probably the latter.

[freespace2dotcom]

I don't have a passport, so I'm not 100% sure, so correct me if I'm wrong, doc, But I bet you have a password that
you need to be able to proove that you're you (so you can go to another country). And the USA government is
bullying the world to force everybody to change their passwords, and not for the first time, either.

That certainly would rub me the wrong way, too.

[DocHoliday]

Eh, sorry. I mean passPORT.. thanks for pointing out the typo.  

We are supposed to have a biometric(ated) passports to visit US, or be labeled as suspicious. So if ONE person in my
country wants to go, our gov't of course must issue new passports for everyone. And I'm pretty sure that our whole
population will not decide to boycott US by not visiting ever. And the production of new passports will be payed by
us - the good taxpayers, because americans are afraid of the world. Neat eh?

FREE: No password, passport. Since our passports (I KEEP making the same typo, ehhehe) were designed and created in the 90s, they were deemed one of the most modern and fail-safe passports in the world, but US thinks differently I guess

PS: When I say Americans I usually exclude the people on this forum that happen to be from America. I refer to the government, its goons and various people who support it blindly. I chose to believe that people using Orbiter are not by definition blind mentally, but still may chose to support it, in which case they might get insulted by some of my posts... Can't prevent that. sorry.



Post Edited ( 08-12-04 09:38 )

[freespace2dotcom]

Hell, I'm not afraid of the world.

The american government wants us to be afraid of the world. Thus making us cut ties with every country, which is
stupid.

I'm not in favor of being so close to another country that we'd have to hold hands, but even so, the American gov't
just goes too far.

We'll make everyone our enemies with this policy, and although I prefer being isolated and independent, I very much
understand the need for a healthy positive international community. (ie. friendly relations)

rest assured doc, I'm not for that, and I feel for you. You shouldn't have to be submitted to that.

[AphelionHellion]

Freespace: Hehehe, I like your tumultrics idea. Call up the international bureau of weights and measures or whatever
and start campaigning

Doc: Do you mean passports?  Ahhh
I see... I didn't know they did that, but then I haven't traveled out-of-country in awhile so I don't know a lot about
passports. I bet other countries will adopt the biometric stuff soon and it'll be standard on most passports anyway, so
I dunno if it's fair to blame the hassle entirely on the US  I mean it does give one pause that someone can forge a
few pieces of paper and waltz right in with no checks or measures to ensure that you're not dealing with the next
WTC bomber or something...

Yeah yeah, big brother, mark of the beast and all that jazz
 I really don't see a one world recon-ocracy coming into being simply because no one is willing to give up that much
power to one entity. Even if we as citizens didn't have a problem with mandatory ID chips (which we would!) there's
no way most governments are going to relinquish all power, IMO. We're willing to give power to a government insofar
as they represent us, but since there are many different points of view, a single government could never represent
the spectrum that comprises the global population. And even when you're dealing with a dictator who forces
obedience from his citizens, he's sure as heck not going to hand over power to a larger entity, not without a fight.
So I don't see the current heightened security measures as the vanguard of some sort of "New World Order"
surveillance state, at least not as they stand now - though I used to think so, I'll grant you that.
Perhaps these days I'm more skeptical or cynical, or stupid. Or optimistic

[DocHoliday]

Yup, it always reminds me of the Orwellian principles. You always have to make sure that foreigners are depicted as
an evil dark-hearted enemy and that your own people are supreme and pure... Makes justifying the killing of them
a lot easier... When in fact we are all alike.

Shame you're not running for president, Free. I would feel a lot more relaxed about US then Sure, I know you'd try
to conquer Venus, but at least you wouldn't be out to get the rest of us Terrans

[DocHoliday]

few pieces of paper and waltz right in with no checks or measures to ensure that you're not dealing with the
next WTC bomber or something...

When I went to US in 1999 I was almost INTERROGATED by the customs officer. I had to tell him how various words
are spoken in SLOVENIAN. That was just plain sick!! And my passport was okay. I got pissed off and demanded an
explanation and he told me that they are instructed to test the knowledge using predetermined keywords, because a
lot of people come with fake passports and of course don't even speak the language of the country they are
supposed to come from. I was very close to saying that he shouldn't flatter himself so much and that I have no wish
whatsoever to defect to the US, but I realised some people are far worse off than me and may have good reasons to
try to defect to US.

So I don't see the current heightened security measures as the vanguard of some sort of "New World Order"
surveillance state, at least not as they stand now - though I used to think so, I'll grant you that.
Perhaps these days I'm more skeptical or cynical, or stupid. Or optimistic

Yeah me too. Must be the elections in your country. Being pessimistic and scarred, takes A LOT of energy from you. I
realised that even if there IS a conspiracy and NWO building in progress.. let it be. Once it is up, there will always be
a tendancy to break it down and eventually it will be dissolved and replaced by a new entity of this type and so on...
it's the way of the natural evolution of this planet.  All you as an individual need to be careful is not to be killed while
this takes place, because being so unimportant in the whole mass, you certainly won't be spared if you step out. I'm
not saying you should conform, I'm just saying you should wait for the moment that is right for a change.... And
always be yourself, while at the same time you get with the program (I love that phrase as sinister as it is!)

If you feel like a custom measurements system, go for it I settled for personal holidays instead of national

Cheers,

[freespace2dotcom]

Hehe.. I do agree with you AH, but then that's why they have to weaken the will of the people.

Look at the integrety of Americans back in the 50's and compare it to today.

the dollar is worthless, do you remember the days when a dollar could get you into the movies with tons of snacks? I
don't, but my grandfather does. That's a far cry from the 8-14 bucks just to enter the theater nowadays. We have no
control over inflation.

a 5 cent hershey's bar? quit dreaming! try $1.50.

Even I can remember 10 years ago a hershey's bar was usually under a dollar, even if not by much. Nowadays it
costs more to make a quarter than the value of said quarter. That's why there was the talk of abandoning pennies.

more on this later. I don't wanna make a huge post all in one go again.

[freespace2dotcom]

When I went to US in 1999 I was almost INTERROGATED by the customs officer. I had to tell him how various
words are spoken in SLOVENIAN. That was just plain sick!! And my passport was okay. I got pissed off and demanded
an explanation and he told me that they are instructed to test the knowledge using predetermined keywords,
because a lot of people come with fake passports and of course don't even speak the language of the country they
are supposed to come from. I was very close to saying that he shouldn't flatter himself so much and that I have no
wish whatsoever to defect to the US, but I realised some people are far worse off than me and may have good
reasons to try to defect to US.

Personally, I know of a story of a person from europe. I don't know where, but he went to the school I go to now.

He wanted to be friendly, so he hung out with a few people.  One day, he was in this other guy's car when this
second guy got pulled over for some reason.  Anyway, this second person asked the first person to hold this thing for
him, and hide it, which he did. The police searched them both, and the thing that the guy told him to hide turned out
to be drugs.

So the guy from europe was arrested for possesing drugs, which was the other guy's, but alas...Anyway, after he got
released from probation or something, things went smooth for a few months, until he went back to europe for a
vacation back home. When he came back to america to finish his education however, agents were waiting for him at
the airport.

Apparently, if you're in the position he was in, after you leave, you're not welcome back. So he got deported back.The
point of this story? you cannot fool me that american intelligence does not know these things. If they can find this
minor (innocent) drug possesor and pick on him, you're stupid to believe that they can't find the dangerous people.

It's just an act to condition the people for the things to come.



Post Edited ( 08-12-04 10:24 )

[freespace2dotcom]

Once it is up, there will always be a tendancy to break it down and eventually it will be dissolved and replaced
by a new entity of this type and so on... it's the way of the natural evolution of this planet.  All you as an individual
need to be careful is not to be killed while this takes place, because being so unimportant in the whole mass, you
certainly won't be spared if you step out. I'm not saying you should conform, I'm just saying you should wait for the
moment that is right for a change.... And always be yourself, while at the same time you get with the program (I love
that phrase as sinister as it is!)

I myself will go along with pretty much anything, as I really don't think biometric passports are that terrible a
thing that they can't be lived with. I'd rather not take it, but it's not the last straw.

However, I won't go along with a microchip implant. Even if it promised me "eternal life." That's the no-no the bible
tells us we're not suposed to do. as it describes the mark of the beast as a thing to be put in the right hand or the
forehead. As you cannot buy or sell anything without it, or the number of your name.

Social security numbers.. credit card numbers..

those are numbers associated with your name, and a mirochip can easily store those in itself. And a microchip will be
forced upon the people once certain things have come to pass. and if you cannot buy without it, how are you
supposed to buy food? By stealing? Oh, a choice between stealing and starving is a choice rather easily made by
many. but then thos who do not take it will be looked down upon by society. What place could ther be for someone
like that? And the system, once in place, will be impossible to rebel against, impossible to change. Those in power will
make sure to that. If you do rebel, then your access to money is denied, as it's electronic. I'm sure many people have
had their credit card denied for many reasons. It's as easy as that. That is the last straw. It's either be all for it, or be
against it.  "Be either hot or cold, if you are luke-warm I'll spit you out of my mouth."

[DocHoliday]

Well, one could argue that according to this story, your security actually works very well. If they have time to track a
one time foreign drug dealer, they obviously have the big fish covered then again, they may have tracked him
because he's an unknown potential new competition to the local drug dealers which are "under control".

Hehe, you think your inflation is big? We user to have inflation back at the end of 80s that was measure in thousands
of percent. The prices in the store would be raised every week or so. Worse than that, former Yugoslavia (actually
Serbia) had an offical bank note of 10,000,000,000 dinars (the Yugo currency). I actually have it somewhere and will
try to scan if for you. You really need to see it to believe it. The really sad thing is, that this huge figure actually had
the purchasing power of about 100 USD

Anyway, inflation within normal limits is a requirement for a growing economy (Doc the Economist speaking). You
cannot have 0 inflation, 0 unemployement and a huge GDP. It doesn't add up. Seems illogical, but if you put it into a
fiscal or monetary policy model, that's the result you usually get.

HOWEVER, a huge inflation beyond say 20% annually, will usually spiral out of control and you end up with a very
solid foundation for a dictatorship. Happened in Germany during the 30s, happened also in my country in the 80s. The
official reason always is, that in order to get things under control, you need a firm hand, a fierce and determined
leader, a strong chancellor, a patriotic courageous soul, that does not necessarily need to be well spoken, but it
helped them in the past .. sounds familiar? strong character vs. 3 purple hearts.. Actually they are just different sides
of the same medal The underlying point is, that the American population at the moment is quite susceptible to this
sort of a leading figure, which is inherently dangerous for you. And us in turn. Since you have the biggest guns
around.

Cheers,

[freespace2dotcom]

I don't like kerry any more than bush.

they're both members of skull and bones. kerry wants to let the government run the church, and that's not good at
all. If I recall, whenever governments ran the church, persecution by the church was soon to follow.

And I confess that that event you mentioned was worse in inflation, but I do think that if america would stop
spending money we don't have, we could control inflation.

Personally, I don't think that inflation is normal. I just think that everyone's doing it and so it seems normal.

The very first thing I'd do as president would be to establish a silver standard.

And I have lots of ideas for reform.

I'd do things my way and if they didn't like it, they'd better vote me out.

[DocHoliday]

Silver standard eh? that's sort of backward.. Probably too late too. The system workds differently now, and your
silver would not be able to hold value itself. You'd be better off setting oil as a standard Plus the international
trade would probably not be able to accomodate a fixed currency as it used to. You'd probably wind up with a whole
set of different problems, also resulting in high inflation and low competativeness of US economy..

All you really need, as you said is control over spending. Especially gov't spending. Pres. Reagan made an ART of
raising gov't spending, but from a monetaristic point of view it actually raised GDP a helluva lot. A lot can be done
with fiscal (tax and exports) and monetary (interest rates and quantity of money in the economy) policies...

but I do think that if america would stop spending money we don't have

Hehe, correction, money that america owes to the world.. But as I understand it, almost every American has a debt in
the form of credit card overdraws and the like. The country just does the same on a grander scale Me, I think debt
is bad and not necessary and in fact I have absolutelly none. And life is easy because of that

Cheers,