Dan's Orbiter page
Orbiter English => Orbiter English => Topic started by: DanSteph on 21 November 2007, 17:49:40
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(http://orbiter.dansteph.com/screenshot/dansteph/abfouco1.jpg)
See preview video:
http://www.dansteph.com/publie/UcoAbfoPreview.wmv (17mb)
Another video that show UCO handling and somes features: (low quality for size concern)
http://www.dansteph.com/publie/UcoPreviewFeature.wmv (20mb)
Goal:
Add more virtual reality, transport your astronauts from home to launch pad, explore landing area with rovers. Have
fun with vehicles, explore amazing towns & area.
Possible devellopment:
Interactive house, bar ?
Carry payloads with trucks (fuel? rocket payload?)
Helicopter, flying engine ?
Open:
-Picto's town are modulare by area, mean it's very simple to construct new towns with a few lines in a config file.
-Adding new car just require a mesh fil and a config file, no programming. You can see an example of actual config file
for the van: http://www.dansteph.com/publie/UCOCarVan.cfg
As it is now one can add things as rovers, boat, truck, whatewer. I plan to add more possibilities by config file like
more anims (door? turning radar ? other?)
Release:
Not before winter or spring 2008, Picto and I have real life work to finish, ABFO & UCO work already but we want to
add more stuff and get it almost perfect.
Voila ;)
Dan
Message modifié ( 22-11-2007 03:41 )
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Looks amazing. Thats going to be one small step for a developer, one giant leap for Orbiter. <(^_^)>
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ummu??? when will thear be a beta And i will test
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Look similar to the idea I work(ed) on with City.DLL, but i planned to make the cars just plain AI objects and part of the
city scenery, including them into the level of detail calculations (Yes, I still have not found the needed time to debug the
quad tree :bug: )
How are your plans with the advanced buildings?
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Very awesome, for a second I thought I was watching Grand Theft Auto!
Can you reveal a rough estimate of what the system spec. requirements might be to run this add on?
Thanks always
Ryan
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I think our UMMu friends may need a mesh change. Seems a bit strange to me that he would ride a bus on Earth and wear his
space helmet to the bar. They need is an atmosphere switch to tell them to be out of their space suit/ helmet when on Earth,
otherwise, they would need their space suit and helmet.
It is an awesome start though Dan. I sense new adventures where you not only fly to a place, but go to a bar and party, or go
find an object, or drive cargo from the terminal to the DGIV.
I will eagerly await my beta testing/ scenario creation duties!!!
:wor:
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sunshine135 wrote:
I think our UMMu friends may need a mesh change. Seems a bit strange to me that he would ride a bus on Earth and
wear his
space helmet to the bar. They need is an atmosphere switch to tell them to be out of their space suit/ helmet when
on Earth,
otherwise, they would need their space suit and helmet.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Wouldn't the UMMu's run out of O2 if hey had to wear their suits.
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Urwumpe a écrit:
How are your plans with the advanced buildings?
Difficult question, I have several thought on this, one problem is the lack of "persistency"
IE: appart orbiter base wich are inactive every "vessel" have to be in scenario.
Not very user freindly if you have to copy/past dozen lines in each scenarios.
Other problem is that you can't have zillions object moving, this would cause problem
with the main purpose of Orbiter.
My last thought on wich I tested the concept was to have a global "persictency" DLL
wich would be in charge to spawn vehicle based on a "global scenario" file.
At start of scenario if the vehicle is not in current scenario the dll add it in scene
and the vehicle will be saved with the scenario, mean that it will be saved in the new
position (if it has moved) = persistent world.
Parameters could be set inside Orbiter using the "custom module" feature.
enable/disable - make vehicle appear in the F3 list or not etc etc. - select vehicle (if disabled from f3) - Reset position etc etc.
Anyhow we can't put a full town animation because it would mean hundred objects,
high end computer could maybe support that and also remain playable but not
current one. So probably there will only be by default some bus track. (one can add news
"Cars" there is a "waypoint menu" so it's very simple to define new track that are saved
in scenarios)
About "advanced" we are not really fixed on this, possibilities are infinite, for example factory
that would product "payload" fuel, o2, etc etc wich would then be carried to launchpad
by truck to resuply station, home with advanced feature, musique, ummu, animations...
but probaly version 1.0 will just be "advanced" because the buildings are far more complex
than default one.
Ryan a écrit:
Can you reveal a rough estimate of what the system spec. requirements might be to run this add on?
Picto is a great modeler and know well optimisation, as towns are "modular" we plan at least
to make two versions, one for current/high computer another one with smaller town for low end
computer. I'll test that on my old P400 so it remain playable. With 2-3 modules (wich are already big)
I don't see any framerate issue on my computer
sunshine135 a écrit:
I think our UMMu friends may need a mesh change. Seems a bit strange to me that he would ride a bus on Earth and
wear his
This is another reason for delay, I plan to work also on UMMU 2.0
with "usual cloth" and some other features.
Dan
Message modifié ( 21-11-2007 20:01 )
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DanSteph a écrit:
Anyhow we can't put a full town animation because it would mean hundred objects,
high end computer could maybe support that and also remain playable but not
current one. So probably there will only be by default some bus track. (one can add news
"Cars" there is a "waypoint menu" so it's very simple to define new track that are saved
in scenarios)
I got most problems in my project when I exceeded 2000 objects (buildings) in the city, but mostly because of the line of
sight calculations on my slower PC. I was working on that problem, by sorting all objects into a quadtree and only pay
attention to the corners of each node. The main problem which slowed down progress was reorganizing the nodes each time a
object travels from one node to another.
My ideal is still the city rendering of Lock-On! (or Flanker 2.0, which was already similar), which does some good effect
with only few buildings per settlement (for a flight simulation).
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One framerate killer is the numbers of "groups" in mesh Picto is merging as much a possible
groups with same material, this mean one "area of a town" (with 10-50 house) have
the minimum possible number of groups (and so material)
If you do at one time quadtree plan to group house and not add each house individually.
We'll not do any "active optimisation" computation because I think this has to be designed in engine
to be really effective and not cause odd side effect, I believe also that a well middle size designed
town is preferable to a very big towns. So heavy poly/material/group optimisation can do the job
and still render well.
Dan
Message modifié ( 21-11-2007 20:40 )
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Yes, thats correct. Sorting the groups is really important, as each material switch in orbiter takes some time away. If the
groups are sorted so that you have a minimal number of material changes during rendering, its sometimes better in performance
as a low poly mesh.
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This looks like it could change Orbiter for ever.
Will users of Orbiter be able to create these advanced bases like we do normal Surface Bases?
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DanSteph wrote:
This is another reason for delay, I plan to work also on UMMU 2.0
with "usual cloth" and some other features.
Dan
yayy
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:wor: :wor: :wor: :wor: :wor: :wor: :wor: :wor: :wor:
Dan you are a true saint. This looks amazing, with or with out any extra's.
If you want ideas cargo handling and arms would be good, for an extra challenge trailers and trains and
how good is the AI?
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tl8roy a écrit:
how good is the AI?
Perfect with less than one meter precision. You define waypoint and AI will navigate beetween
them accelerating/decellerating , lighting main light if there is night, or blinker if there is a sharp
turn. Waypoints are saved in scenario and cars will replay it forever unless you disable AI
with "A" key to take manual control.
At waypoint you have also some "action" choice, follow one speed limit for example
or stop "NN" secondes, if stop exceed 20 secondes cars stop engine and restart it
before continuing.
I'll post a "how does it work" video in a shot time explaining actual features and HUD menus.
Dan
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Cool, really cool
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DanSteph wrote:
Perfect with less than one meter precision. You define waypoint and AI will navigate beetween
them accelerating/decellerating , lighting main light if there is night, or blinker if there is a sharp
turn. Waypoints are saved in scenario and cars will replay it forever unless you disable AI
with "A" key to take manual control.
Dan,
You and Picto never cease to amaze me. Just when you think all of the possible gifts have been given, you guys come up with
newer and cooler things. The AI is on par with nice pay-ware (flight sim and FS Traffic come to mind). This really adds a
whole new dimension to the Orbiter.
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Another video that show UCO handling and somes features: (low quality for size concern)
http://www.dansteph.com/publie/UcoPreviewFeature.wmv (20mb)
Dan
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Man... Really exciting stuff.
This, and FsX making huge strides too.
I hope you don't burn out too much to enjoy the holidays, Dan! :friend:
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Wow. Speechles. Now all I have to do is watch the video (over dial-up! Cringe)
Could allow some very complex senarios! Mission: Ram the DGIV into the-guy-who-stole-your-seat-on-the-bus's
house (Suddenly, things became a lot more violent).
I wonder what your wife thinks about all of this, and more inportantly, how you manage to fit this all in (you do sleep,
don't you Dan?).
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personal opinion - and in keeping with the *what* orbiter is. (although you seem to be redefining that all the time)
While this undertaking is a HUGE break thru :applause: and is a quantum leap beyond where and what most of us
have imagined :wor: - I would be very interested in the possibilities of detailed bases or space ports and the areas
around the space ports. Space vessels that could be entered (seen and explored) while in space??
It's ashame that the orbiter's engine ( not the ones on the back dummy :fool: ) doesn't really have a collision
detection function for surfaces. I realize that this is probably the limiting factor in having a vessel interior that could
be explored. :wonder:
Post Edited ( 11-25-07 19:51 )
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Tachyon a écrit:
It's ashamed that the orbiter's engine ( not the ones on the back dummy :fool: ) doesn't really have a collision
detection function for surfaces. I realize that this is probably the limiting factor in have a vessel interior that could
be explored. :wonder:
Technically I think it would be possibe, that's one of my "dream" for Orbiter and futur
addon. I'm not yet near to have exhausted all idea that I want to do. ;)
Only problem is time to spend on it. (real life)
Dan
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I watched the video, it looks soooo cooool...
I member that X Beyond the frontier (XBTF) and Independence War 2 had traffic too.
In the case of XBTF there was some sort of tracking of vessels.
I think that asking people involved in those projects might help.
I am no expert in this, and this could be a silly idea... so if it is, never mind.
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DanSteph wrote:
.
-Adding new car just require a mesh fil and a config file, no programming. You can see an example of actual config file
for the van: http://www.dansteph.com/publie/UCOCarVan.cfg
Dan
Can You release that?
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woo482 a écrit:
Can You release that?
The config file ? sure you have it already :badsmile:
Dan
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Dan, you are a genius. Perhaps you should include a fuel truck?
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This is some quality stuff Dan! One question, what is the name of the song playing in the background of your second video?
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Jean Michel Jarre - Millions of Stars ;)
See a live on youtube:
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=95oH6C3HHRs
Original version is far better imho, (the one you hear on my video) but I didn't found it on youtube.
EDIT: forget the previous one, I think the original is here:
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=AcqIB1v5F90&feature=related
Dan
Message modifié ( 23-11-2007 08:35 )
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You know, I have a little add-on that might go well with this: An animated walking figure. You guys could use
someting along those lines, yes?
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Much thanks Art but sorry, doing that would mean that I brake UMMU abilities
to use other mesh and thus the "universal" part of it.
Maybe in the future I may add walk as optionnal feature of UMMU but in this
case I preffer to do it myself, I love doing addons and I find doing a realistic
walk really intteresting as I'm also fond of AI and "robots" movments.
Anyway I think It's not easy with Orbiter to get something that is enough
realistic to not break the feeling or not look funny. (wich would be worse than no anim)
Direct X offer tools for that but we can't access them with orbiter (there is no skinned
mesh for example)
Dan
Message modifié ( 23-11-2007 08:45 )
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DanSteph a écrit:
Direct X offer tools for that but we can't access them with orbiter (there is no skinned
mesh for example)
Why not? I mean, switching textures is not the hardest task in Orbiter now (Its just two lines of code, without error
checking and surrounding infrastructure). Eg replacing the face texture could even be done without dangerous infrastructure -
the name of the astronaut would be enough to decide which texture would be desired. (Unless you also want funny expressions,
when somebody drops the UMMU astronaut in a lunar crash orbit :wonder: )
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Urwumpe a écrit:
Why not? I mean, switching textures is not the hardest task in Orbiter now (Its just two lines of code, without error
checking and surrounding infrastructure). Eg replacing the face texture could even be done without dangerous
infrastructure
By "Skinned mesh" I was meaning the abilities of DX8 to have "bones" and flexible skin as in this video:
http://www.dansteph.com/publie/SkinnedMesh.wmv (800kb)
Another problem of animated walking MMU is the complete different motion that you must have on earth
and on different planets... As said this is not a piece of cake and without great car the result might be
more "funny" and "disturbing" than really "immersive"... in brief, not a "two days" work ;)
Dan
Message modifié ( 23-11-2007 15:05 )
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By "Skinned mesh" I was meaning the abilities of DX8 to have "bones" and flexible skin as in this video:
http://www.dansteph.com/publie/SkinnedMesh.wmv (800kb)
Another problem of animated walking MMU is the complete different motion that you must have on earth
and on different planets... As said this is not a piece of cake and without great car the result might be
more "funny" and "disturbing" than really "immersive"... in brief, not a "two days"
work ;)
Ah you mean skeletal animation! :ptdr:
I agree that this won't be easy. I had one idea for an experiment in Orbiter, for seeing if its possible to overwrite the
vertex data in meshes (I wanted to impart harmonic oscillations on a parachute mesh), but i doubt I will make this experiment
soon. If somebody else would do this experiment, I would greatly appreciate it. I am really curious about its outcome. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeletal_animation
If we could change the vertex data of a mesh in Orbiter, have a projection from vertex index to a position on the animation
model (eg the bones) and have a useful animation (actually, from Earth to micro-gravity, the range of human movement is
already researched), it would not be far to a skeletal animated astronaut.
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Urwumpe a écrit:
I agree that this won't be easy. I had one idea for an experiment in Orbiter, for seeing if its possible to overwrite the
vertex data in meshes
I have changed the vertex in symphony radar but unless you have
access to DX's vertex function (so you can optimize transformation&transfert to card)
it will be costly for a great number of vertexs.
Given the fact that it's so "easy" in DX8 and so complicated in Orbiter (you have to write
your own transformation engine with a possible dramaticall impact in FPS) I would not
try this...
Better to rewrite the whole Orbiter's engine ;)
So you have "contact point problem" (can be overidden with Y animation of whole mesh)
Bone problem (hierarchical animations) Flexible Skin problem (no solution appart designing carrefully
the texture so it doesn't look too strange where two "bone" joint) and also different&complicated
walk motion on low gravity planet...
Not a piece of cake... intteresting, not impossible but *maybe* not as much appealing as we think.
Game that have ***realistic*** humain animation are not so frequent and they use DX8+
features and doesn't have problem of different gravity. (you can import in DX8+ a 3dmax
model with hierarchical squeleton & DOF & skin, "finger in the nose" in this case)
Dan
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I could see a problem with how the UMMu reacts on different planetary surfaces also. This would add great complexity to the
UMMu. For instance, on Earth, your UMMu would walk normally. On the moon, the UMMu would "hop" as they would on Mars. On
larger bodies, UMMu might struggle to move, as they would weigh more and the spacesuit would be bulky. I can already see how
UMMu v.2.0 could potentially be a very complex project.
Add to this the complexity of atmospheric conditions to change the meshes, and you may be looking at doing 2 or more
atmospheric meshes performing 3 different "walking animations" based on the gravity of the environment. As well, you may have
different animations for a zero g UMMu. This boils down to about 8 different scenario specific configurations based on
atmosphere and gravity.
This certainly seems like no small project by any means.
Regards,
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DanSteph wrote:
woo482 a écrit:
Can You release that?
The config file ? sure you have it already :badsmile:
Dan
How do I make it work?? Make a txt in to a config?
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The text is a config. We just don't yet have the software to make the config meaningful.
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oh ok :(
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Picto how is the Irridium, mission to Jupite mod doing
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I was a little fed up with C++ as I am learning it in the same time I try to build Irridium.
So, as ABFO doesn't need any programmation for the V1, in my mind it is a recess.
I think I will work back on Irridium in January
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ok how about a beta of this mod? just one car/van and will this have aircraft?
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I'm in charge only for ABFO.
I give a little help to Dan for the models for UCO so he can spend all the very little free time
he keeps to prog UCO. Actually, all works fine, but we want it to be nearly perfect :) for a V1
release. May be for Christmas ;)
Post Edited ( 11-24-07 18:43 )
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will you need testers??? I helped in the Atv/Ctv mod
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More vids?
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Hey, why did you keep this project so secret for so long? Or was I just wearing earmufs?
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It was not a secret. It's just that four weeks ago, this project wasn't existing ... ;)
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Oh. You guys work FAST.
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Ryan wrote:
Very awesome, for a second I thought I was watching Grand Theft Auto!
Can you reveal a rough estimate of what the system spec. requirements might be to run this add on?
Thanks always
Ryan
:) I though maybe I was the only one thinking of GTA when I saw this. ;) It really is an amazing look and change for
Orbiter.
Congratulations and thank you to Picto and Dan!
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Got a question about the AI system. Will it be able to go to a certain dynamic target (ship) or go to and stop short of
that certain target? And possibly follow a path [road] to the target? It looks awesome as it is! Don't get me wrong,
I'm just wondering how far this is going to go interms of functionality.
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For road no, appart keeping a "road" db and complex IA wich would add a lot of perf impact.
But by waypoints cars can follow road perfectly.
Target at first I would say no for 1.0 version but who know... ???
The problem is the lack of compatibility, maybe I can put a fuel truck
that reach your ship after landing and refuel you but how would other
addons react to that ? how to know if your "just landed ship" need
refuel or not.
In brief this will be decided at dev time (wich is not now, I have real life work
to do)
We plan yet to head to a "persistent" world in brief IA cars and town & bases
will always be here whatewer scenarios you launch.
The goal with picto is to bring a more appealing "Orbiter world" why making
billion km trip if it's just to reach empty area on other planet or a base
with two white cube. Not very exciting.
We head also on a P4 1.7Ghz with 64mb card minimal spec, by defaut you'll have
"low res" version of the world installed, a config program will let you choose
more detailled base % town for hig end computer.
Dan
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Dan: How difficult would it be to define a road mesh of predefined waypoints in a configuration file? With the car just
collecting its trajectory data based on these waypoints when it starts moving or fails to travel the planned route?
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Urwumpe a écrit:
Dan: How difficult would it be to define a road mesh of predefined waypoints in a configuration file? With the car just
collecting its trajectory data based on these waypoints when it starts moving or fails to travel the planned route?
The fact is that one can't populate a town with cars we plan a max of 5-7 cars
per "town" or "base" with seven places populated in world and a max of 20-35 cars.
This lead for and overall of 400'000 poly and about 200 textures (not all loaded
in same time of course and including cars) For one place this will do about
40'000-60'000 poly and 50 textures. (some place will be less detailed
with less textures)
I think we can't do more unless we head to an addon that will run only on high
end computer.
With IA cars following road on their own you'll probably miss them while doing
recorded path you can place them on exact places/track wich will really matter.
So a "road waypoint" would be nice in case you can really populate a town
with hundred cars not when you have only a few.
In any way even installed in "low" version this will be a great improvment
over "empty world" or "white cube" base of Orbiter. Even a few cars can give
a great feeling of "living place" if placed with great car.
Dan
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In the same idea than Urwumpe.
If we have only five or six IA Cars, is it possible to imagine that they adapt their "course"
to be closer to the current manned controled vehicle. Like ghosts in PacMan :ptdr:
Just to give the feeling to the user that the place is more inhabited.
Message modifié ( 30-11-2007 13:31 )
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This will only give you the feeling that... everyone follow you
with possible funny side effects ;)
We might do that for our next addon: "ww2 combat in orbiter sky" :badsmile: (joking of course)
Dan
Message modifié ( 30-11-2007 13:34 )
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It is not because I am paranoiac that everyone is NOT following me ! :)
Message modifié ( 30-11-2007 13:36 )
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Well, maybe in a later version. :)
Something like SimCopters city rendering would be cool, but I think, it only worked because the cars had less polys as one
hover nozzle of the DG.
But the main reason for such waypoint networks would be (for me), it would be possible to generate cars on demand, without
letting them run fixed tracks. Could create more differences, without repetition. Even if you only allow 10 AI cars in the
simulation - if these 10 cars are different cars running different routes, this can look over some time like you have many
more cars.
Or these cars react on the player: Lets say, you crash your DG near the town, and triggered by that event, fire department
trucks and ambulance cars get created and run towards the crash site. Or you call a fuel truck.
Well, maybe later.
(EDIT)BTW: Would it be hard to use multiple meshes of different level of detail for the car, switching them depending on camera distance or "speed blur"? I mean, from 3000m altitude, 2 triangles in the color of the car would already be enough to represent a car.
Message modifié ( 30-11-2007 14:38 )
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We should build a club Urwumpe. :)
I've been asking many questions like this to Dan.
Firemen, ambulance, fuel trucks, cranes, tarmac engines and so on.
With automatical deployement when a ship is on arrival or crashes of course :)
But the only answers are :"No, May be, Fous moi la paix avec tes demandes, for the V 33.45 :badsmile:"
But it is not simple, and I can understand those answers.
What happen if you crashes in water for example ?
And many other problems like this one.
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But it is not simple, and I can understand those answers.
What happen if you crashes in water for example ?
And many other problems like this one.
Actually, since Orbiter's surfaces make no distinction between land and sea, it would make it impossible to trigger an
accident without a "vehicle" responding (i.e. your rescue vehicle driving in the Ocean), but, on the bright side, you could
have boat meshes also. You could program them to run their little pattern, or set them in a static manner out in the ocean
watching liftoff. :sunk:
You could also program a "life raft" mesh, or maybe place a "button" on DGIV's panel to prepare DGIV for a land or water
based rescue. That could give the desired result for rescue vehicles.
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Well, I think there is only one answer. Somebody should do it experimentally. If it works, it works. :badsmile:
Eg, the question if some place is water is simple to solve - describe earth as mesh of triangles... and for each triangle
have the variable "Is it water". Could be done in a Orbiter plugin... entering the data would be the most painful part.
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entering the data would be the most painful part.
Should it be possible to test the alpha of the earth tex tile
masks for specularity to afford this problem ? :wonder:
A boat is planned, but only to make rounds in water using waypoints ;)
Message modifié ( 30-11-2007 15:21 )
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I also plan to do a boat in the nearer future, but i am currently more interested in the "hotware" :sunk: part of it.
The texture file could be used as basis for the data, but as we are actually only interested in the corners of the oceans
(the coast line), it's a bit overkill to use a large compressed texture as data basis.
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Many experimental and advanced stuff are possible but not suitable for a "public addon"
For me an addon should work for the great majority and not only on high end computer.
It should also remain straight and simple because no one read docs
When you crash the game is over the "rescue team" would be a lot of work
for only 2mn of "joy" at crash wich will be boring after the 2rd 3rd time.
About realism rescue things that come from nower would not add much
than te simple siren sound, after all game is over.
I would find really more intteresting refuel and maintenance truck that come after
landing on a pad and that really refuel you with interactive stuff. A call on radio
for example.
Anyway UCO & ABFO are not specially dedicated to one addon, this limit the
interaction possible beetween the "main" ship and U&A.
At very last if we do very advanced stuff maybe we should spend the dev time
to recreate a new game where we would be more free to do what we want ;)
Dan
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LOL, making the code for a new game is easy. Making the graphics and other artistic stuff for games is hard. And thats not
easier in Orbiter. :)
And what is really annoying: Have the right idea for a original creative game.
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Based on my experience a new game engine is not *that* easy,
but still in my plan, I don't lack idea yet I lake time (and time is... ? :badsmile: )
That was one of my dozen game project, 2001
(http://www.dansteph.com/publie/dpolli_free_fr/multi2.jpg)
That was another 1997 :badsmile:
(http://www.dansteph.com/publie/dpolli_free_fr/gd_nav.jpg)
Dan
Message modifié ( 30-11-2007 16:23 )
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DanSteph a écrit:
That was one of my dozen game project, 2001
Damn, thats almost the same idea I had last year... But I changed the concept of the game from age of sail to World War I
after the first sketches, because the period became more fascinating (Especially the battle of Jutland).
Well, I currently make modules for a simple SAM site in Orbiter, which can be sort of a game inside a game. Small Orbiter
modules is all i can currently really do with my free time. :(
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DanSteph wrote:
Many experimental and advanced stuff are possible but not suitable for a "public addon"
For me an addon should work for the great majority and not only on high end computer.
Dan
You're my hero Dan. Many programmers don't care about the guy who doesn't have the latest computer specs. That make is tough
for those of us whose main objective may be a PC or Laptop that was purchased more for office functionality rather than gaming.
I think that just creating functional towns/ spaceports/ vehicles will go a long way in improving the fun of Orbiter. I
recall that when I added FSTraffic to FS2000 it added to the depth of the simulation. This would be so, even if the objects
were not programmable/ static.
You and Pic will bring much satisfaction to the game.
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Caring about those who do not have the latest specs means you have a wider market filled with customers.
"Many programmers don't care about the guy who doesn't have the latest computer specs" means that such a
programmer would not be selling as many copies as he could sell otherwise.
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ar81 a écrit:
Caring about those who do not have the latest specs means you have a wider market filled with customers.
For me it's mainly a question of respect for users and respect for my work,
I want that it run fine and for as much users as possible.
Dan
Message modifié ( 30-11-2007 18:59 )
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You have to find a balance between computing power and effects - with some experimental research, you can sometimes find more
advanced algorithms, which can create great effects with only minimal computing power use. If these effects can also be used
on better machines for even more effect, you have achieved a scalable algorithm. And thats what you need on PCs.
If you would just develop games like "Lunar lander" (Nothing against Lunar Lander, it rocks)
http://www.arcademachine.com/go/java/play/A0120.tam
You would not really attract people. Some show is always needed in times, people get visually pleased all the time.
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For me it's mainly a question of respect for users and respect for my work,
I want that it run fine and for as much users as possible.
Indeed I truly believe YOU already have OUR respect... your work is amazing!! :wor:
These words can only make us proud of respecting you.
-
Amazing optimization work by Picto:
(http://orbiter.dansteph.com/screenshot/dansteph/ABFOPlayable.jpg)
Dan
-
One question to your car add-on: Could you allow attachment points, which can be used for attaching trailers to a truck? And
could you implement an AI driver, which follows another car?
-
Technically yes.
Orbiter Attachment: they cause a lot of problem on ground whit relative ,movment , unusuable, so the goal would be
to make trailers as a child animation for turn... I bet the result will not be famous visualy for a lot of work. Also this
would cause problemes with third party cars (dimension will completely change the animation)
As said I can do much more at home with a fixed computer than what is suitable for release, the goal for a public
addon is to have a "full proof" & rock solid addon.
AI following a car technically possible without too much work, but not very suitable and potential problem that will not
practically make it really usefull. (you brake and it crash into you because its brake are less powerfull for example)
How do you see it practically ? "follow me" for what goal exactly ?
Trailers are intteresting I may take a look but not for version 1.0.
Dan
-
The "follow me" feature could be used for forming convoys of multiple trucks, with the player just steering or programming
the lead vehicle. The braking distance could be used (just like for real life cars) as input for the safety distance while
following another car.
Instead of trailers, what about allowing simple attachments (without any special physics behind) for transporting containers
or special payload modules (eg, instead of making you program a special crane vehicle, install a crane module on a generic
truck)?
-
Urwumpe a écrit:
Instead of trailers, what about allowing simple attachments (without any special physics behind) for transporting
containers or special payload modules (eg, instead of making you program a special crane vehicle, install a crane
module on a generic truck)?
That is an idea that I have in mind, the goal behind this would be to make a sort of "universal container" that *may*
allow further devellopment as orbiter "elite" (orbinomic?), repairing, transport, payload for ship, refuel for station etc
etc... The difficulty is to make something generic, ie: if I do "truck" looking container how would they fit on different
cars or ship, how to transform them in "DGIV" payload container or other payload. One may use maybe one container
for all for example the DGIV container but this would be limiting.
Another idea would be to not really care about container's mesh... on ground they would look like box, on truck like
truck payload, in dgIV payload as dgIV payload. All would have a standard "ID" container that all ship & cars
recognise.
At last the basic idea is that you would be allowed to transport for example refuel container from Factory on earth to
station in orbit and that would really refuel the station.
If the principe is "simple" the hell is in details. As usuall allowing other people to use it as an "Universal container"
system would be nice (unless I program the whole "orbinomic" world alone including ship, cars, station wich is not my
philosophy usually)
Dan
-
will thear be a dgiv rover?
-
The lunar rover is DGIV payload compatible.
If fact every object/ship in O£rbiter is DGIV "payload compatible" you just need to add some
parameters in the config file. You can take the bus as payload if you want, by default only
the lunar rover will be and will have a "packed in bay" mesh.
Dan
Message modifié ( 01-12-2007 17:17 )
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Question: Will ships and cars be able to crash into the buildings, or go right through them like they do now.
-
DanSteph a écrit:
if I do "truck" looking container how would they fit on different
cars or ship, how to transform them in "DGIV" payload container or other payload.
I would say, the people will figure out, what looks good and what looks strange. Its not like people will transport SRBs with
a pickup truck. If an economy add-on really gets into trouble because of this, its most likely easier to solve it then, then
to define a standard now for all economy add-ons.
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No crash detection, same reason as above, we
can do that but it would not work on low end or
medium computer. We are *just* at the limit.
for a playable addon on almost every config
we doesn't have plenty of proc cycle to waste.
Dan
-
DanSteph a écrit:
No crash detection, same reason as above, we
can do that but it would not work on low end or
medium computer. We are *just* at the limit.
Understandable. While car collision detection could be done in 2D, its a pretty complex work for something which is just a
spaceflight simulator.
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I see that city, Dan...
You are offending my eyes... it is simply too cool and amazing to be true!!! :friend:
And I know it is true... :beer:
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Hey I just loged on for the first time in 3 months and I sure missed alot. Cant wait for this to come out. :wor::wor:
-
Will thear be a prison building? For my convics
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Yes.
You missed your landing ?
"Go directly to Jail. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $20000."
Message modifié ( 06-12-2007 21:05 )
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coooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool :)
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looks pretty nifty
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Sorry to fit into the collision faction, but I couldn't resist. What about have a bounding-box system? Microsoft
Trainsimulator uses this instead of a complex crash physics simulation. Just have the builidngs and cars set a
bounding box (could be as simple as defining a box in three dimensions [similar to cross sections?] or a complex
shape) and when one bounding box intersects with another, you get a collision message and either a reset or end
message. This could be as complex or as simple: user sets collisions on by default, and ends game by default, or both
off.
Now about cargoes. I'm not sure why it couldn't be left up to the users to "make it fit." If you really want an
automated system, why not have the module written so when the cargo's child attachment point comes within a
certain range of the carrier's parent attachment point it automatically attaches. Perhaps get fancy so if it's a crane,
you can select in the settings either to have it automatically attach, or require the user to manually release the cargo.
If you must know I'm being a bit selfish here. I'm building a lunar base addon which will have a flat-bad tractor with
robotic arm and I'm planning to make it UCO compatible once UCO comes out.
-
picto wrote:
Yes.
You missed your landing ?
"Go directly to Jail. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $20000."
Oooh, high-stakes monopoly.
-
Is there a rough release date as of yet? Any updates?
-
Dan, you've done it again, this by far will probalby be your greatest addon for orbiter, but is this a base or a vessel
like the Prelude base II?
-
Updates for ABFO...
Working on a base for Mars and some low poly generic meshes
to build the inside of surfbases for Mercury, Venus, etc ...
Textures are not finished yet because I try to build the lightest
pack with the best "wow effect" for RTC people. ;)
No news from Dan for UCO.
(http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/5/12/15/f_002Jupiterm_29b507e.jpg)
(http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/5/12/15/f_001Jupiterm_524a9d3.jpg)
(http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/5/12/23/f_012Jupiterm_8aadc00.jpg)
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You are killing me, slowly but you are......
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This thing is so cool it's amazing... I just don't have enough words to express myself.
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Woah! 4\/\/e$0/\/\e, d00d!
Er... I mean... That looks like it will be a very nice add-on.
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Nice!
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8o :bave: :damn: :trucdeouf: :doubt: :wor:
Picto, that is astonishing!
-
Thanks to all.
Just have a look to a very good architect's work, Georgi Petrov.
This work is a project for a realistic permanent settlement on Mars.
http://www.spacearchitect.org/pubs/Petrov-20040201.pdf
-
What types of vehicles should we expect to see on Mars?
-
Dan has started a concept rover for Mars.
May be things like this should be nice.
(http://img40.picoodle.com/img/img40/5/12/27/f_vemarm_b2e506b.jpg)
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That trike looks like fun. :)
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A trike and a harvester! Time to mine for spice! :)
That base looks REALLY Inviting, Picto. I hope everything's coming along okay for Dan. You guys have done
some amazing work so far.
:hot:
-
I never found Arrakis in Orbiter :sad:
Dan is working on FsPX ... we just need to push him to finish the
fastest he can so that we can find him ready for Orbiter again.
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Well you guys said you would finish it after winter or spring no? You have plenty of time I think.
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OMG! OMG! OMG! You've done it again Dan!:eek:
-
WOWWOWWOWWOWWOWWOWWOWWOWWOWWOWWOWWOWWOW just doest sum it up, this is the kind of
thing that drops your jaw to the earth's core 8o :applause: :damn:
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Looks awesome guys. Love the trike! Reminds me a bit of a dune buggy, and (strangely) of the Warthog from Halo.
Just one thing... will all these vehcles (sorry, can't spael) have handy easy-to-use SDKs for the skins? If so, they will
probably use up all of Dan's server space, if the volume of DGIV skins is an indication.
-
I can't wait for this to be released, first thing I'll do is make a journey to Mars, but starting right from home! We take
the bus, it takes us to the spaceport but doing a few stops before getting there, then the bus leaves us next to the DIV, it
launches, reentry on Mars, touchdown, a Martian type vehicle comes to get the astronauts and takes them to their quaters.
What an adventure!
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picto wrote:
Dan has started a concept rover for Mars.
May be things like this should be nice.
To me it looks good, but I think those vehicles are just too heavy and not so cost effective to bring them to space.
As for Dan, those images are just gorgeous...
It is just... amazing...
That would boost surface addons to a new level.
I will keep drooling until then...
-
Heh, counting the days till spring.
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ar81 wrote:
To me it looks good, but I think those vehicles are just too heavy and not so cost effective to bring them to space.
Why bring them on a big ship, when you can build them on Mars?
-
What if spring ends late due to climate change??? :)
:lol:
-
ar81 wrote:
What if spring ends late due to climate change??? :)
:lol:
Blow up the sun, of course!
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willy88 wrote:
ar81 wrote:
What if spring ends late due to climate change??? :)
:lol:
Blow up the sun, of course!
I think the DIV will do well in that duty. I'll be preparing mine just incase.
-
It seems that winter will never end here, wind, rain, every day.
I'm not sure we will ever see another spring ... :sad:
-
We're are getting a lot of bad weather too, but summer was so dry that I welcome the rain like god.
-
The only thing I dislike about spring is the insects, they come out wild in this season..... creepy crawlies. :cry:
Post Edited ( 01-12-08 10:54 )
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We have a cold spring here everyday. Buts no reason for me, to not get a bad cold. :sad:
Can't Dan include a flu in UMMU? Would increase realism a lot for me currently.
-
Ach. I hate spring. Hay fever. Itchy eyes. Runny nose. Nergh.
-
LOL!! That's very common here.
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Updates?
-
Maybe once this comes out, I could make my own vehicles! I'd make a scooter. I love scooters.:applause:
-
What is the status of this project?
-
DanSteph wrote:
(http://orbiter.dansteph.com/screenshot/dansteph/abfouco1.jpg)
See preview video:
http://www.dansteph.com/publie/UcoAbfoPreview.wmv (17mb)
Another video that show UCO handling and somes features: (low quality for size concern)
http://www.dansteph.com/publie/UcoPreviewFeature.wmv (20mb)
Goal:
Add more virtual reality, transport your astronauts from home to launch pad, explore landing area with rovers. Have
fun with vehicles, explore amazing towns & area.
Possible devellopment:
Interactive house, bar ?
Carry payloads with trucks (fuel? rocket payload?)
Helicopter, flying engine ?
Open:
-Picto's town are modulare by area, mean it's very simple to construct new towns with a few lines in a config file.
-Adding new car just require a mesh fil and a config file, no programming. You can see an example of actual config file
for the van: http://www.dansteph.com/publie/UCOCarVan.cfg
As it is now one can add things as rovers, boat, truck, whatewer. I plan to add more possibilities by config file like
more anims (door? turning radar ? other?)
Release:
Not before winter or spring 2008, Picto and I have real life work to finish, ABFO & UCO work already but we want
to
add more stuff and get it almost perfect.
Voila ;)
Dan
I feel that this is going to be astounding.
-
Hey Dan. I'm very interested in this project, have kept an eye on it since it's announcement last year.
How about a status update or a possible incomplete beta release?
-
Orbiter Fan a écrit:
Hey Dan. I'm very interested in this project, have kept an eye on it since it's announcement last year.
How about a status update or a possible incomplete beta release?
Sorry not possible... I must absolutely release FsPassengers or we'll run into trouble, so release of ABFO&UCO
will only be done after release of FsP. Will keep you informed anyway.
Dan
-
Thank you for informing us Dan.
Post Edited ( 02-13-08 17:17 )
-
Believe it or not I'm still patiently waiting for this project or it's beta test, and I will patiently wait for it's realease.
-
How big will be the file size?
-
100mb+
-
And you know this how, woo?
Dan and Picto are working in this, not you.
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woo482 wrote:
100mb+
WHAAAAAATTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????!!!!!!!! :eek:!
-
lol..
-
Can it be smaller? My computer will crash :bug::bug::bug::bug: the moment it generates the the buildings, buses, cars, etc. etc. etc. .....
-
He's just guessing.
Personally, I recon it will be about as big as the DGIV installer. But it's just a guesstimate!
-
BUT THATS A LOT OF STUFF IN THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek::bug::bug::bug::bug:
-
PLEASE! NO SMILEY SPAM!!!
And don't worry. Your computer won't crash. If it does, turn the settings down, and don't have as many buildings and the
like. Even though it hasn't been released yet, I can tell you with 100% certainty that your computer will be able to run
this. How much ram do you have?
-
For road no, appart keeping a "road" db and complex IA wich would add a lot of perf impact.
But by waypoints cars can follow road perfectly.
Target at first I would say no for 1.0 version but who know... ???
The problem is the lack of compatibility, maybe I can put a fuel truck
that reach your ship after landing and refuel you but how would other
addons react to that ? how to know if your "just landed ship" need
refuel or not.
In brief this will be decided at dev time (wich is not now, I have real life work
to do)
We plan yet to head to a "persistent" world in brief IA cars and town & bases
will always be here whatewer scenarios you launch.
The goal with picto is to bring a more appealing "Orbiter world" why making
billion km trip if it's just to reach empty area on other planet or a base
with two white cube. Not very exciting.
We head also on a P4 1.7Ghz with 64mb card minimal spec, by defaut you'll have
"low res" version of the world installed, a config program will let you choose
more detailled base % town for hig end computer.
Dan
Oh man, I have Pentium 4 but 1.6 Ghz only, Dan, is it available?
-
100mb+
Which means, this will be the largest addon in Orbiter?
-
I want those addons, I want to drive in the city.
-
Where's the pdf about UCO and ABFO including sounds, meshes, textures and modules?
Good luck!!!;)
-
Hey, I've edited in orbiterwiki about UCO and ABFO.
ABFO, http://www.orbiterwiki.org/wiki/Advanced_Buildings_for_Orbiter
UCO, http://www.orbiterwiki.org/wiki/Universal_Cars_for_Orbiter
-
I have videos about our favorite Orbiter Space Flight Simulator.
Find my username, http://www.youtube.com/user/unknownquinones
Watch, then post comment, and finally subscribe.
Post Edited ( 04-11-08 13:22 )
-
Ouch wrote:
I have videos about our favorite Orbiter Space Flight Simulator.
Find my username, http://www.youtube.com/user/unknownquinones
Watch, then post comment, and finally subscribe.
A playlist is now removed myself at a total of 5 videos because I'm scared to be removed due to terms of violation.
-
ouch wrote:
Ouch wrote:
I have videos about our favorite Orbiter Space Flight Simulator.
Find my username, http://www.youtube.com/user/unknownquinones
Watch, then post comment, and finally subscribe.
A playlist is now removed myself at a total of 5 videos because I'm scared to be removed due to terms of violation.
DO NOT upload other's videos without permission.
Also, I've noticed you posted seven times in a row. Could you edit your posts instead of posting six more times?
-
willy88 wrote:
A playlist is now removed myself at a total of 5 videos because I'm scared to be removed due to terms of violation.
DO NOT upload other's videos without permission.
Also, I've noticed you posted seven times in a row. Could you edit your posts instead of posting six more times?
Hello, I've been already removed myself before you.
Thanks.
Post Edited ( 04-12-08 06:32 )
-
ouch wrote:
Hello, I've been already removed myself before you.
Thanks.
Wh-at?
-
Okay, y'all... Let's try to remember who started this thread. When Dan's all done with FSXP, he'll post us an update.
(http://orbiter.dansteph.com/screenshot/dansteph/abfouco1.jpg)
...and If Picto wanted to tease us with some more imagery in the meantime... well that'd be just fine too. :wor:
-
For more information, http://orbiter.dansteph.com/forum/index.php?topic=12231.msg188444#msg188444
This is about UCO and ABFO in Dan's Add-ons.
-
Any more news on this ?
-
I ca just imagine what this will be like once a multiplayer version of orbiter comes out, but is there any way to lower
the amount of space needed to download it, I have a lot of junk in my pc (FSX, POTC, SWE4/6 games, SM3, default
games, orbiter, too many addons, etc, etc, etc, hope you can translate this) Anyway, still looks cool, a fall release
maybe?
-
Brando14100 wrote:
Looks amazing. Thats going to be one small step for a developer, one giant leap for Orbiter. <(^_^)>
Thinking the same as Brando14100
-
I'd love to help Test!! If you need Them. But the cars and cities a wonderful idea.:wor:
-
When exactly will it come out! Also I'm getting kinda impatient about the DGV.
-
apollo wrote:
When exactly will it come out! Also I'm getting kinda impatient about the DGV.
Dan is currently working on FSPassengers for MS Flight Simulator X. He has not made any announcements at all for the DGV.
If you want something new, you can gawk and drool at Doug and Coolhand's XR2 Ravenstar:
http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=490
-
willy88 wrote:
apollo wrote:
When exactly will it come out! Also I'm getting kinda impatient about the DGV.
Dan is currently working on FSPassengers for MS Flight Simulator X. He has not made any announcements at all for
the DGV.
If you want something new, you can gawk and drool at Doug and Coolhand's XR2 Ravenstar:
http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=490
XR2 ravenstar, AWESOMNESS TO THE MAX!:wor:And as sad as this is going to sound, probably better than the
DGIV:trucdeouf::doubt::rant:
-
Any news on this project? It has me very excited!
Post Edited ( 01-24-09 18:45 )
-
Are you working on this ?
-
The guy that lives down the street told me that Dan was planning to release the final ABFO & UCO packages on Tuesday. And
Carl hasn't been proven wrong.. ever. He also said that his involvement with the package was substantial while
Cornflake just sat around all day, eating cereal and barking orders at Dan. Meanwhile, Mrs. McFee was found wandering
aimlessly about the market, hassling the town crier for...
Okay, okay... :ptdr: But I believe Dan may be awaiting the release of the new version of Orbiter,
currently entitled "Orbiter 2010: the year we make contact" to ensure his hard work is compatible.